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Author Topic: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.  (Read 13904 times)

Daneegyrl

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2005, 03:44:06 PM »
I don't remember Squid calling anyone a "victim".
Circumstances can often determine where you end up life. Some people are not strong enough to move out of their circumstance. So, you can "buy it" or not, it doesn't really change things. You can't put yourself in someone else situation unless you've BEEN there.
You can say, "I grew up in a double wide", I can say "I grew up in the projects of Philly" and there is some kid out there that can say " I grew up in a shelter, a card board box, an abandoned building or the back seat of an old car".
Who are we to tell them that they should be in a better position in life because we are - UNLESS of course, we help them get there or at least encourage them to do so.
Sad but some of you just won't get it and I can understand not getting it. I can't get what an 18 yrl old bulimic beverly hills girl goes through because at times there wasn't enough food. JUDGING others' situation when you haven't been there is what I have a problem with

eric, you call it name calling while I call it like I see it. I agree to totally disagree with you.
Oh by the way, when you make a comment like " I am tired of blacks...." and anything that you add to that is denIgrating to me, eric. Don't know if you know this or not but I AM BLACK. Thus the same old arguments about your "general statements" apply but really, since I am not here to change your mind ( and I certainly don't see where it is worth it to try)  I'll leave and have a great weekend and pray to God that your way of thinking doesn't grow into a cancerous movement and also that you never go through anything so detrimental as to need the aid or assistance of someone who doesn't "owe you anything"...

« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 03:47:32 PM by Daneegyrl »
Be Easy,

majin ssj eric

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2005, 04:18:25 PM »
Yeah, well I call it like I see it as well.  And if you are going to quote me then why don't you at least do it accurately.  I said "I am sick and tired of seeing black people on the tv blaming racism for everything that is wrong with their lives."  I didn't say "I'm tired of blacks".  But I AM tired of people like Kanye West getting a free pass to be racist because they are black.  If you find that denigrating or offensive I simply don't care.  You're going to find anything I say offensive because you can't bring yourself to consider a point of view different from your own.  I hope you do have a great weekend, btw...... 

 
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JQrr

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2005, 04:26:52 PM »
Can't we just all get along? ;D :thumb: 8) :P :-*
You don't know what you don't know until you KNOW what you don't know............  WHAT??

TH0001

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2005, 03:16:35 PM »
"Circumstances can often determine where you end up life. Some people are not strong enough to move out of their circumstance."

I don't know if there is anything I have ever read that I have disagreed with more in my life. Life is what you make, no excuses. If Helen Keller can learn to communicate, for example, anything is possible. I despise victim behavior. My parents where poor imagrints from Sicily and came her with nothing. I grew up (for the first 4 years of my life) in the projects of Chicago. My dad worked two jobs and went to school full time, while learning English in his free time. Anything is possible, anything. My dad just retired last year, from his job as a doctor. He did it with no special schoolarships and hand outs, hell he didn't know they existed, and if they did he sure as hell wouldn't use them.

You statement only provides a cop out. Life is what you MAKE it. I learned that when I went in the Marines. Everybody can sit around and play the blame game and blame everybody else (look at the liberal media, and you wonder why the democrats are loosing ground in America despite an incompent Repulican Administation). The people on the news complaining they where let down by the government? Are you kidding me, you let yourself down when you did nothing with your life.

A minority in the USA, specifically African-Americans, have so many oppurtinites, it is nobodies fault they did not take advantage but thier own. You can go to college for FREE if you are African-American, there is NO excuse. I understand that thier where somecases of truely innocent victims, the elderly, the young, ect... I was raised the hard nosed way, unless you try 100% and make sacrafices then you are to blame for your own situation.

TH0001

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2005, 03:18:25 PM »
" I'll leave and have a great weekend and pray to God that your way of thinking doesn't grow into a cancerous movement "

I'll pray the same, that your victim behavior thought process goes no further... That you understand that people are respondisble for themselves and nobody is owned anything.

NewRedRider

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2005, 05:02:24 PM »
Wow! What the hell did I miss!

Oh BTW, I just came back from a nice ride today! Check it out! We should have some pictures up soon and video later.
http://www.streetknights.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12992&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75

Trageties such as this bring out the best in some people and the worst in others. Which side are you on?
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TGalaraga

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2005, 05:44:03 PM »
Majin, thinks that everybody has the money and means to just up and leave whenever they want...screw poverty or living in the ghetto, many of those people don't even own a car (let alone flood or home owners insurance). Majin, you're giving the impression that the unfortunate people have squandered their money on "Dubs and gold necklaces," and to me that indicates you may have some issues you might need to work out related to racial stereotypes.

Secondly, how many of us could or would just freely abandon their home without looking back? The storm is bringing out the worst in a lot of people and we can always look back and say what people should or shouldn't have done, but that doesn't change the fact that our own people (Americans) are in need...you can turn your back on them if you want Majin, but my family will not.

As usual, I find myself agreeing completely with Fret on this one.  The fact of the matter is, most of these people don't have the mobility to leave their surroundings, so even if they wanted to, they'd still be trapped so to speak.  Yes, I guess if one was resourceful enough, then he/she could find a way to leave, but take this into account... If you can't afford a car to leave, you'll obviously be broke and homeless in another town.  Personally, I don't know if I would be able to leave my few belongings behind, but that's just me.  Not all of these people were physically mobile enough to leave, so the fault isn't on them.  They need help, and didn't receive it--draw your own conclusions.

And as for the racism thing that everyone is complaining about, I think it's more important to note how issues of class have affected this more so than anything else.  Yes the two are forever intertwined, but to directly assume a correlated relationship between the two makes it difficult to engage in a discussion about this.  It isn't a coincidence that the lower-income areas are the same exact places that are below sea level and prone to being flood.  It also isn't a coincidence that in the past 8 years that they have been trying to update an antiquated levy system, that the local political powers that be have consistently denied the legislation to pass (while reading this, keep in mind that the top ten percent of our nation hold more than 70 percent of the wealth, and with it, the majority of the political clout).  So why would those in power vote to spend money on areas that don't affect them?  Because the fact of the matter is, not many people care about the class below them.

So yes, these people have been let down by their government.  Unfortunately, however, it began way before the arrival of Hurricane Katrina.  In early of 2001, pre 9/11, FEMA issued a statement regarding the nation's top threats.  Coincidentally, the top two threats were 1) a terrorist attack in New York City, 2) an earthquake in San Francisco, and 3) A hurricane in New Orleans.  Despite these warnings, nobody did anything (I'm only talking about the hurricane, not 9/11 which is a completely different post all together).

The way I see it is this...  No political powers that be have really ever cared about the politically powerless lower-income class--and why should they?  If they are interested only in staying in power, they of course cater to those who will give it to them.  As much as I hate this, it is the way it works.  As a result, the lower-class areas in New Orleans have suffered the most.  On top of that, they've been labelled "refugees" as if they themselves are not part of the United States, or at least they don't matter.  Sad to say, politically they don't.  It's important to note how semiotics play into this use of the phrase "refugee" and how it can be decoded in terms of class standings. 

Sorry, I actually just composed an article that is a structuarlist examination of the semiotic use of the word refugee in the media coverage of Hurricane Katrina.  I'll probably be presenting it at an academic conference in a few months, so I have a tendency to rant about this subject.

TGalaraga

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2005, 05:52:56 PM »
Wow, I'm really surprised at the lack of sensitivity on this board.  Understand that those of you up in arms about this whole racial uproar come from a priviledged life, where you had adequate means to education, food, shelter, healthcare.  These basic building blocks aren't always readily available to all people from all walks of life.  When people talk about the "circle of poverty", they're referring to the fact that kids in the impoverished areas can't go to school to further their education because they need to work to bring in money to support the other important areas, like food, shelter, and healthcare.  This means that the best jobs aren't available to them (due to lack of education).  This means that they're only eligible for the lower paying jobs, the ones that barely allow them to eke out an existance.  This means that their kids will experience the same things that they did.  So on and so forth.  The reason that there's reliance on government assistance is because THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT.  How in the hell are you going to tell someone to go and get a better job?  With what college education will they be able to do that?  How in the fuck are they supposed to pay for it?  If they so much as sneeze on a FAFSA form, you'll raise your exasperated arms up in the air and say that they're sucking on the government's titty again.

Vicious cycle, no denying the fact.  

Very well put.

TH0001

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2005, 08:33:54 PM »
Sorry, more excuses IMHO.... You can do anything you wanted (provided you are not a slave or owned or restricted by a government, ect). Now people can no longer claim they didn't get hired because a mydrid of excuses avialable to them. If Rossa Parks can sit in the front of the bus (when she wasn't allowed to) then so can anybody. Like I stated my father barely spoke English when we moved here and he went on to become a doctor.. He worked two jobs, supported a family, learned engilsh and attended a Pre-med school... He applied himself 100 percent and refused to accept no. I refuse to feel sorry for anybody, because I have seen that anything is possible, if you truely want it bad enough. This is country does not enslave people, hold guns to them, or deny them jobs, so there should no longer be any excuses, IMO.

NewRedRider

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2005, 08:40:57 PM »
Quote from: NewRedRider
Thanks guys! And thanks to the Streetknights crew and Lance and the Hellfirecycles crew for making it such a successful ride! thumb.gif thumb.gif

We raised $945.00 for the Salvation Army's Disaster Relief Fund. jawdrop.gif bow.gif

What a great day and a great ride! hammer.gif

It was great to see everyone and meet some new faces. Hope to see you guys on the next one! rocker[1].gif
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TGalaraga

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2005, 09:17:30 PM »
Sorry, more excuses IMHO.... You can do anything you wanted (provided you are not a slave or owned or restricted by a government, ect). Now people can no longer claim they didn't get hired because a mydrid of excuses avialable to them. If Rossa Parks can sit in the front of the bus (when she wasn't allowed to) then so can anybody. Like I stated my father barely spoke English when we moved here and he went on to become a doctor.. He worked two jobs, supported a family, learned engilsh and attended a Pre-med school... He applied himself 100 percent and refused to accept no. I refuse to feel sorry for anybody, because I have seen that anything is possible, if you truely want it bad enough. This is country does not enslave people, hold guns to them, or deny them jobs, so there should no longer be any excuses, IMO.

My parents went through the exact same situation.  Came here with nothing, learned English, then entered the work force.  Fortunately for me, they succeeded.  However, I'd have to say that I was either a complete moron, or just completely blind if I didn't say that there is an obvious glass ceiling that my father, as well as my mother, have hit professionally.

Don't get me wrong, my parents are very well off... It's just that, I remember watching my father constantly switch jobs because he felt he wasn't being treated fairly or because he was making below average salary for someone of his position; especially when taken into account the fact that often times my father had been there longer, worked equally as hard, produced equally--often times better--work, and still made less.

I salute your parents, as I do mine and just about anybody else who has overcome this same situation.  However, the fact still remains... In a perfect world, this situation would be afforded to just about anyone who wanted it, however, this not being a perfect world, I don't believe that it is.  My parents work ethic, and I'm going to assume your parents work ethic as well, came from a strong background of hard working, get it done right, family members who had a strong value system ALREADY IN PLACE.  That is what taught my father how to succeed.  The problem is, not everyone is fortunate to have been raised in that same background.  For instance, as someone else already pointed out in this thread, many people are born into poverty, don't even realize what's out there for them, never receive an education, literally have never travelled beyond their own block, and just don't know what opportunity awaits them.  I know that may sound difficult for many of us, considering we're all fortunate enough to be reading this message, which has been digitally encrypted, carried along cables, transmitted to personal computers, and decoded for us to actually read, but the sad fact is, not everyone is born with that equal footing we would all like to believe we have.

We are all privledged in our opinions, and because of that, sometimes I think we find it so easy to dismiss those who haven't/won't/can't prove themselves financially.

Fretless33

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2005, 11:06:31 PM »
That you understand that people are respondisble for themselves and nobody is owned anything.

Maybe if you suffer from black and white thinking and are a brainwashed Marine, then everyone is responsible for their own actions, but some people know nothing but hardship and poverty, some people have mental illness and drug/alcohol addiction, come from abusive families, have low self esteem, are uneducated and can't even read a street sign let alone leave the only place they've ever called home.

This really isn't about black people, it's about a large group of Americans that were caught unprepared by a vicious storm, who probably thought it wasn't going to be as bad as they discovered it to be and are now in need of assistance...

I agree TH that life is what you make of it, but to believe everyone is capable of being as strong as you think they should be is ridiculous.
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OuterGarage

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2005, 12:15:25 AM »
Wow I am impressed with this thread.

For the most part it appears everyone has put some thought into what they are saying.  It is a very touchy and potentially explosive topic but it is great to see people sharing ideas and their different points of view.  I am enjoying reading this thread.  Reading the differences of opinion, even if we don't agree at the time, will at least make us think. :thumb:
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TH0001

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2005, 09:06:49 AM »
"then everyone is responsible for their own actions, but some people know nothing but hardship and poverty, some people have mental illness and drug/alcohol addiction, come from abusive families, have low self esteem, are uneducated and can't even read a street sign let alone leave the only place they've ever called home."

There are execptions to every rule.... I agree some people have mental ilness and this is acceptable of course. Drug/alcohol addiction? Well, quite honestly, that is THIER problem. Unless somebody shoved that bottle down thier throat at gun point and force the needle in thier vein, life is what you make it. As far as not reading a street sign, like I said, my family didn't even speak English, let alone try to read it. However thier are free classes for learning English avialable at most high schools across the country. While very few of your reasons, IMO, are valid, most are just excuses. I equate it to fat people people who complain they can never look a certain way, then go to McDonalds and eat four cheeseburgers.

Life isn't easy, for anybody, even those who are privelaged. Only certain people are raised not to be victims and they tend to succeed. It is impossible to better anybody unless they are willing to better themselves. As a nation and a government, we should be respondsible for providing education to those who are willing to educate themselves (which is more then some nations even offer) but we can not hold the hand of those who are unwilling to better themselvees.

One particualar video I saw was a man in NO who appeared very uneducated and looked like a bum (he was white btw). He was complaining that government abanoned him and how come they weren't helping him. Maybe my view is harsh but it is how I feel and that is.... WTF is wrong with this guy, this so called government has supported you by taking my money and paying you and enabling you to do nothing with your life and when it back fires on you, you get pissed? (not you, but that guy). When the African-American sect was speaking of the racisist government abandoning them (obviously they missed all the white, Asian, and hispanics that got left behind also) I wonder if they where complaning when they were standing in line collecting checks from government or when FEMA issued them 2000 dollar debit cards.

Somebody mentioned earlier that when something horrible happens to a black individual that the race card is always played. It seems to be pretty true, though I speak from experenice that a lot of the black community does not support or agree with it. Infact many friends of mine (who are black, btw, remember I grew up on the south side of Chicago) are getting more and more frustrated with the race card being delt in everyhand. They want to be recognized as indivduals first and as being black second. I'm getting off topic and try to avoid discussing racism over the internet because thier is nothing more sterile then words on a screen and that can never express how I feel and only leaves people to make judgments based on words.

Anyways, obviously many of us disagree, but if we all agreed then how boring would this world be. I would be left to  :jerkoff: and even that gets old.



SquidLid

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2005, 02:00:26 PM »
Drug and alcohol addiction do have biological components, this is scientific fact.  Some people are prone to addictive behavior, and that addictive behavior manifests itself in alcoholism or drug abuse.  To state that it is their problem to deal with is both insensitive and unrealistic.

I do agree with your statement that as a nation, we should provide education to those who are willing to educate themselves.  The only debatable point here is whether we are realistically achieving that goal through programs such as "No Child Left Behind".

The difficulty in arguing that the race card is overplayed is that we really can't see how it is to live as a black man/woman in America until we live a day in their shoes.  I know friends who are pulled over almost every time they drive down the street just because they are black.  How difficult must it be to have people think that you were given your job to satisfy a quota, or to watch you like a hawk while you're shopping because "you never know how THOSE PEOPLE will act if they don't know they're being watched".  I can't ever know this because I'm not black, Hispanic, or Philipino and never will be.  For me, or any other white person, to criticize racism is almost laughable because I'm seldom (if ever) the one being negatively impacted by it.