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Author Topic: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.  (Read 13899 times)

ToyCBR

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2005, 01:03:13 PM »
I have been somone who for the most part try's to stay out of finger pointing and name calling but this situation was BS, it dosn't matter if we are white, black, asian, whatever. There are people in the south who are in a world of hurt right now, what everyone needs to do is quit bitching about what happened and help out. We can piss and moan about the lack of response in a timely manner later. Deal with the remaining issues now.

As for poverty and people living in those conditions... i have my own opinions on that, for the record I was brought up middle class, average joe america. i have seen and worked with people from many diffrent income brackets. When we as outsiders look at the homeless jobless etc and automatically think that they are all like that because of choice we are usually wrong, BUT many of the people I have met in these areas believe strongly in entitlements... i deserve these monies, grants, food stamps, social security, welfare, unemployment, etc. just for living in the good ole USA, i believe this ideology is BS. Granted if you are TEMPORARLY down on your luck these programs work, they do not work when people are milking the system. Work ethic and drive are lacking in today's sociotey, i have had employees who think they should be paid just for showing up to work...

People need to get off this entitlement kick, realize that even though a job at MCDonalds may not pay a whole lot an isn't prestegious, it is a job, and if you stick with it you can gain skills to move onto something else.

I am stepping off the soap box. shoot me if you want.


Daneegyrl

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2005, 01:15:17 PM »
No shots fired, ToyCBR.

One, you realize that you only know about the situations that you've seen personally. You didn't generalize and you've recognized that ALL people in these situations do not have entitlement issue.

Those that do, I agree with you on. There was a situation here in Philly where the red cross and the city were setting up the Wanamaker school to accommodate some of the displaced from New Orleans. There were people here who had the nerve to protest prior to their arrival. They feared that these displaced persons would come and take the government housing that they were on waiting list for.

What pissed me off; these were young people mostly, who had the idea that something was owed to them because they were on a waiting on list. These people will be living in a school! 4 cots to a room! This is not some place that you would leave your current homes (mostly project housing) to live in! And no one owes you anything because you had young children before you could afford to raise them or because you are in a hardship situation. These things are "granted" not "owed".

I totally believe that the work eithic is slipping for many people, (black, white, other, etc) and that we should work, do what we can to support ourselves. I also know we don't live in a utopian society where this is always possible. The programs that we've created should be temporary, used to get back on your feet if you've fallen by the way side or made some mistakes. So yes, I agree with your "entitlement issues".

Hurricane Katrina does not qualify as one of those issues and as you said, we should deal with that issue now and get back to the core of the problem when we can (because there IS a core problem in this country that was spinning out of control well before Katrina ever touched down...)

« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 01:18:01 PM by Daneegyrl »
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600DubRizzle

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2005, 01:17:30 PM »
First off, I feel pretty helpless when I look at the whole situation.  I feel bad for the people, and I also don't like to second guess the relief effort because I have absolutely no experience in coordinating efforts of this magnitude.  I can also understand why someone would say something about this being like slavery.  

Look at it this way.  If you were somehow stranded in an area with people who are also white/black/poor/old/young, and you were being herded around like cattle by people who look and act a hell of a lot different than you, your mind is going to start spinning like crazy.  It's to be expected.  All we can hope for is that everyone gets through this safely and anyone who is impeding progress (slow government officials, price gougers, fraudulent individuals) get strung up by the balls.
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OuterGarage

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2005, 02:05:19 PM »
No shots fired, ToyCBR.

One, you realize that you only know about the situations that you've seen personally. You didn't generalize and you've recognized that ALL people in these situations do not have entitlement issue.

Those that do, I agree with you on. There was a situation here in Philly where the red cross and the city were setting up the Wanamaker school to accommodate some of the displaced from New Orleans. There were people here who had the nerve to protest prior to their arrival. They feared that these displaced persons would come and take the government housing that they were on waiting list for.

What pissed me off; these were young people mostly, who had the idea that something was owed to them because they were on a waiting on list. These people will be living in a school! 4 cots to a room! This is not some place that you would leave your current homes (mostly project housing) to live in! And no one owes you anything because you had young children before you could afford to raise them or because you are in a hardship situation. These things are "granted" not "owed".

I totally believe that the work eithic is slipping for many people, (black, white, other, etc) and that we should work, do what we can to support ourselves. I also know we don't live in a utopian society where this is always possible. The programs that we've created should be temporary, used to get back on your feet if you've fallen by the way side or made some mistakes. So yes, I agree with your "entitlement issues".

Hurricane Katrina does not qualify as one of those issues and as you said, we should deal with that issue now and get back to the core of the problem when we can (because there IS a core problem in this country that was spinning out of control well before Katrina ever touched down...)



Daneegyrl,

I believe you are absolutely right in everything you just wrote.  :thumb:  You should speak up about issues like this more often on the site because you have a great perspective on things.
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majin ssj eric

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2005, 02:14:56 PM »
Oh, and for the record Majin ssj eric, I had a friend in college who was from Zambia and I can assure you, there is no dancing around fires and from this post I am also assured that he was much more intelligent and advanced than you!

Oh yeah, the height of civilization.....   :jerkoff:



For the record, I was responding to the video where the ignorant black guy brings up slave ships in his f-bomb-laden response to what should be done about Katrina.  It's funny that a black man spouting hatred on tv doesn't so much as blink anyone's eyes but if I dare to call a spade a spade then I am branded as ignorant and racist.  I understand that many people are poor and didn't have means to escape (even though the vast majority of those who stayed most certainly could have gotten out) but the point is, why are they poor?  The answer is that they have depended on the government their whole lives and refuse to accept any responsibility for their own situations.  The people running around looting in New Orleans and shooting at rescue helicopters (I still can't believe that one) now want to turn around and say that nobody cares about them, pointing fingers at all of us.  Is everybody like that?  Of course not.  Many good, honest, hard-working people have been dealt a severe blow by this natural disaster.  But many others have gone on to do what they always do in the face of adversity:  Blame someone else.  I am sick and tired of seeing black people on the tv blaming racism for everything that is wrong with their lives.  We have become so PC in this country that no one will dare say it but until we recognize that racism flows in both directions, we will never truly heal the wounds of this country......  
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flNblu

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2005, 02:18:55 PM »
My response here isn't completely on the race issue:

I guess all of the poverty stricken hurricane victims are black?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9248483/

Although you want to help out because a lot of people are devasted down there, you still have to be aware that these people are strangers and you know nothing about them:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-katsexassault_07met.ART0.North.Edition2.13994b60.html

^This isn't the only article that I've seen like this by the way.  Most of these articles are only carried in local news and not being shown nationally for some reason.  I'm sure you all heard about the stuff going on in the superdome...

In the immediate days following the hurricane, cops opened stores so that people could go in and take what they need to support their families and you've got people taking tv's and jewelry, etc. and doing shit like the pics attached...

I'm just really tired of hearing/reading about a lot of stuff from the evacues.  I've read so much about people being given temp housing in Texas and people complaining that the housing isn't good enough... It's free, mofo!! Would you rather be sleeping under an overpass on the interstate?  The main thing that I have to say is regardless of race, these people need to understand that they need to take responsibility for themselves.  There are a lot of generous people in this country that are donating clothes, food, money, and opening their homes.  But this is completely generousity and should not be expected.  Stop demanding that someone has to give you something because they don't.  They need to be thankful that they survived and thankful for the generousity that many Americans and even people from foreign countries have shown.  Stop expecting handouts.

In closing, here is an article completely off the topic to lighten the atmosphere of the thread and show how truly messed up and stupid some people are in the world...  :P
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8589349/



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Daneegyrl

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2005, 02:57:02 PM »
Oh yeah, the height of civilization.....   :jerkoff:






Your ignorance is only exceeded by your persistant ignorance. Where in this picture is the fire and people dancing? If that was meant to be a rebuttal to my statement that I made regarding the person of extremely high intelligence from Zambia that I met in college, then I guess I shouldn't even waste my time on an educated response because we are clearly not on a level playing field.

"For the record, I was responding to the video where the ignorant black guy brings up slave ships in his f-bomb-laden response to what should be done about Katrina."

For the record, your response was before as it is now- very general and would be insulting to the majority of people who live in NO. It is when you generalize that comments become racist. For example- "why are they poor?.The answer is that they have depended on the government their whole lives and refuse to accept any responsibility for their own situations." insinuates that the general poor population is poor for this reason when you have no idea what ANY of those people's situations are!
You are branded as a racist and ignorant because of what YOU say, not because of what others do.
You're sick and tired? Great! I am sick and tired of people who believe everything that they see on television is reality. And I am sick and tired of those loud mouth people who exist in their own world where racism doesn't exist but then gets tired of blacks and others that actually experience it, step up to say so and are then dismissed as if the situations all occured in the person's mind.
Understand this, what you see as racism would be different from what other people see as racism (obviously, since you think your comment about the dancing Zambian's was actually humorous). 
Racism flows both ways? I am sorry but you are sadly mistaken. It flows in many more directions than that. But you do not help the "country heal its wounds" by watching what you see on television and commenting about an entire group of people as if you were an authority on it.
And yes, the man from the video may have been out of line for dropping the F-bomb on TV but until you've lost EVERYTHING, your family has been displaced, missing, or killed and the future looks hopeless to you because you believed it when your government said it would help you make it through (whether they HAVE to or not, it was said) and is not living up to their words and you've become so frustrated that nothing makes sense, then and only then will you even be able to "kinda-sorta" judge that man's reaction to his situation.


Oh an flNblu, please be aware that the same stories you hear about people complaining about their "evacuee status" in places like Houston, PA, etc is for the ratings and sensationalism ONLY. Most of these people are appreciative of every single effort put forth by those that they know have no obligation to help them. Really, stop reading the news papers, watching the television and try going to one of the cities where the displaced have been relocated. Talk to them and see if they aren't "grateful that they survived and thankful for the generosity that many Americans... have shown".

Don't know how many times and in how many different ways I can say this ( maybe because I was trained as a journalist before I took my current route in school) the news and such stories will make you believe that most of these people are expecting hand outs and are not grateful. Those situations are few and far between and just because people are frustrated with their current situations does not equate to being ungrateful.
If you all would try to put yourselves in some of these people's shoes you wouldn't be so quick to judge.

I have a friend that was displaced to Baton Rouge. He is in a 3 bedroom apt with 15 of his family members. He would appreciate a T shirt if one of you sent it to him. Try that instead of judging people whom you can not even begin to identify with.

I'm done.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 03:06:26 PM by Daneegyrl »
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majin ssj eric

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2005, 03:01:23 PM »
Um, you need to post your rantings OUTSIDE of the quote command.....

Oh, and the dancing Zambians WAS funny, for the record.
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SquidLid

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2005, 03:13:47 PM »
Wow, I'm really surprised at the lack of sensitivity on this board.  Understand that those of you up in arms about this whole racial uproar come from a priviledged life, where you had adequate means to education, food, shelter, healthcare.  These basic building blocks aren't always readily available to all people from all walks of life.  When people talk about the "circle of poverty", they're referring to the fact that kids in the impoverished areas can't go to school to further their education because they need to work to bring in money to support the other important areas, like food, shelter, and healthcare.  This means that the best jobs aren't available to them (due to lack of education).  This means that they're only eligible for the lower paying jobs, the ones that barely allow them to eke out an existance.  This means that their kids will experience the same things that they did.  So on and so forth.  The reason that there's reliance on government assistance is because THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT.  How in the hell are you going to tell someone to go and get a better job?  With what college education will they be able to do that?  How in the fuck are they supposed to pay for it?  If they so much as sneeze on a FAFSA form, you'll raise your exasperated arms up in the air and say that they're sucking on the government's titty again.

Vicious cycle, no denying the fact.  

flNblu

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2005, 03:16:49 PM »
Trust me, Daneegyrl, I have stopped watching it.  I only have CNN & Fox news over here and the tv has been on mute for the last two weeks.  I hardly ever listen to the media at all except when I have too.  I have been in the military and am now a contractor supporting the military overseas, so I KNOW how full of BS the media is.  I hate it that CNN & Fox News is the only portrayal that the US public sees of the events that happen over here.  They only show one side of everything, the bad, to spark controversy and increase ratings with what you call sensationalism.  They never show the good that we are doing or the people dancing in the streets who are so thankful that we are here and what we have done for them.  I've seen several Kuwaitis driving down the street with American flags wipping in the wind out of their car windows showing their support.  I've seen it in the eyes of some Iraqis, but that's not to be shown. Only hatred, insurgents (who are not Iraqis for the most part, but sick, twisted rejects from neighoring countries) and loss of the innocent lives.  Yeah, I know you've heard it all before, anyways, back to my point, no I don't listen to the media at all.

flNblu

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2005, 03:27:09 PM »
Wow, I'm really surprised at the lack of sensitivity on this board.  Understand that those of you up in arms about this whole racial uproar come from a priviledged life, where you had adequate means to education, food, shelter, healthcare.  These basic building blocks aren't always readily available to all people from all walks of life.  When people talk about the "circle of poverty", they're referring to the fact that kids in the impoverished areas can't go to school to further their education because they need to work to bring in money to support the other important areas, like food, shelter, and healthcare.  This means that the best jobs aren't available to them (due to lack of education).  This means that they're only eligible for the lower paying jobs, the ones that barely allow them to eke out an existance.  This means that their kids will experience the same things that they did.  So on and so forth.  The reason that there's reliance on government assistance is because THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT.  How in the hell are you going to tell someone to go and get a better job?  With what college education will they be able to do that?  How in the fuck are they supposed to pay for it?  If they so much as sneeze on a FAFSA form, you'll raise your exasperated arms up in the air and say that they're sucking on the government's titty again.

Vicious cycle, no denying the fact.  

I did not grow up in a 'priveleged life'.  I grew up in a rotted out double-wide (maybe I was priveleged  :P) trailer with a tarp over the roof to keep the rain out.  I was on free lunch at school because my dad was a brick mason. My parents have never had health care insurance, they have no credit.  I had no money for school once I graduated.  I rode the bus, while every one else had cars given to them (I eventually worked a whole summer saving up enough to buy a beater.).  I am where I am because I took things into my own hands and stepped up to the plate.  While other kids were off to college after high school, I joined the Marine Corps.  I served four years, got experience, got training, matured/grew up and learned about responsibilities & accountability through my time in the service.  After my four years of service, I used all of the things I gained through the military to get a good job and support my family.
I'm not buying your statement above.

Daneegyrl

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2005, 03:28:15 PM »
Wow, I'm really surprised at the lack of sensitivity on this board.  Understand that those of you up in arms about this whole racial uproar come from a priviledged life, where you had adequate means to education, food, shelter, healthcare.  These basic building blocks aren't always readily available to all people from all walks of life.  When people talk about the "circle of poverty", they're referring to the fact that kids in the impoverished areas can't go to school to further their education because they need to work to bring in money to support the other important areas, like food, shelter, and healthcare.  This means that the best jobs aren't available to them (due to lack of education).  This means that they're only eligible for the lower paying jobs, the ones that barely allow them to eke out an existance.  This means that their kids will experience the same things that they did.  So on and so forth.  The reason that there's reliance on government assistance is because THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT.  How in the hell are you going to tell someone to go and get a better job?  With what college education will they be able to do that?  How in the fuck are they supposed to pay for it?  If they so much as sneeze on a FAFSA form, you'll raise your exasperated arms up in the air and say that they're sucking on the government's titty again.

Vicious cycle, no denying the fact.  

You and several others have proven that not everyone on this board is lacking in the empathy dept. I firmly believe that you need not have gone through it, only open your eyes to it, to see what a truly viscious cycle this is.

Very well put, squidlid ( and not just because I agree with you but because you've expressed this without insinuating that there is only one group of people affected in this way!) Some of us that come from poor neighborhoods and depairing situations are able to make something different, something better of our situations but there are many, many more who (for whatever reasons) can not.

"I've seen several Kuwaitis driving down the street with American flags wipping in the wind out of their car windows showing their support."

See flNblu, even I was victim to the the media's hype. I had no idea that something like this went on and in the past would make comments such as "they don't even want us there so why are we fighting?".
I've also had to remember that everything that we see on tv isn't always the reality of a situation. It really is a good idea to stop watching the stories and "get in the treanches" so to speak.

Thanks for that...
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majin ssj eric

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2005, 03:28:46 PM »
I don't agree with your premise one bit Squid.  I am in the radiology program of a small community college in fairly rural south GA.  Needless to say, none of us are exactly rolling in the dough.  One of my best friends at school has a wife and two boys (age 5 and 3) and has to work nights at Domino's to support his family (because we all have to spend around 30-35 hrs a week in the hospital on clinical assignment).  He doesn't have shit and works his ass off just so they can eat.  But in one year when we graduate, he will be making $25/hr and will be able to afford to get out of here and do whatever he wants.  The idea that everyone is a victim and can't do anything to better their situation is just ridiculous.  Some people take what life gives them and make the best of it.  Some don't.  

And Daneegyrl, for someone preaching the evils of assumptions and stereotypes, you sure are making alot of assumptions about me.  For someone so enlightened as yourself, you seem unable to make any persuasive arguments without tossing in personal attacks and name calling.  I have not denegrated you personally nor do I intend to.  That being said, you should just calm down and agree to disagree......
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flNblu

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2005, 03:38:49 PM »
I did not grow up in a 'priveleged life'.  I grew up in a rotted out double-wide (maybe I was priveleged  :P) trailer with a tarp over the roof to keep the rain out.  I was on free lunch at school because my dad was a brick mason. My parents have never had health care insurance, they have no credit.  I had no money for school once I graduated.  I rode the bus, while every one else had cars given to them (I eventually worked a whole summer saving up enough to buy a beater.).  I am where I am because I took things into my own hands and stepped up to the plate.  While other kids were off to college after high school, I joined the Marine Corps.  I served four years, got experience, got training, matured/grew up and learned about responsibilities & accountability through my time in the service.  After my four years of service, I used all of the things I gained through the military to get a good job and support my family.
I'm not buying your statement above.

I also forgot to mention that I learned what life was like outside of the USA through my different duty stations and deployments abroad and all I have to say is that MOST Americans have not one single clue as to how good we've got it in our beautiful, blessed country.

majin ssj eric

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Re: this whole racial thing is getting out of hand.
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2005, 03:42:25 PM »
By the way flNblu, you are the man!!  Nobody knows the real deal like our soldiers.  All of you guys friggin rock!
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