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Author Topic: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?  (Read 23783 times)

Jeff

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2005, 01:37:05 PM »
.... and i'm really not that cocky, just wanted some quick thoughts.
I almost hope that i get out there and it blows my mind how fast people race.... its got to feel good knowing you can race.

Good.  I have no doubt that you can race.  Anybody can.  Doing well, right out of the gate with limited financial resources and virtually no experience is basically impossible.

I have a friend who had been doing track days for a couple of years.  His bike is prepped with easily $15k worth of race goodies (if not $20k) and he has a good  bit of money.  He got his license on a Saturday and went out to win his first race on Sunday.  Since then he was placing quite well until this weekend (his second weekend) when he crashed 3 times...  It's experience...  He has the money to continue.  Would you?

And nobody's gonna ban you there Val... See all those smiley faces?  It's known as humor.  Yet another thing you lack experience in...   :P (haha. jokey jokey - here's where you're supposed to laugh)
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madmanu

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2005, 01:42:24 PM »
Just had a question, where do you usually ride and how fast do you ride in those roads to make you think you'll be a competitive racer in no time?  :pop:

marcmcm

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2005, 01:48:52 PM »
I will guarantee you one thing, the track is not the street.  Being fast on the street is being slow on the track.  I was a fast street rider in my area and my first track day I was a mid-pack beginner group rider.  I have spent A LOT of time reading the books and magazines too.  My credit card companies are nice to me so I do have a reasonable amount of money to spend on bike goodies.  I don't race and this is my first year of trackdays.  My other question is what does doing track days with friends have to do with anything.  The fastest I've gone on the track was when all my friends and I were in 1 group together trying to keep up with each other.  We turned advanced group laptimes in the Novice group.  Competition is a good thing.

BlackNumberOne

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2005, 01:53:14 PM »
Quote
when he crashed 3 times
I crashed dirtbikes ALOT, have zero experience crashing on the street though. I don't look forward to that aspect of racing and if my bike was a complete loss, It'd be awhile before I could have the money to try again.


Quote
where do you usually ride and how fast do you ride in those roads to make you think you'll be a competitive racer in no time?
I just ride in the mountains when i can. I ride fast, but am always backing off b/c I don't want kill myself that way. The roads themselves have become my limitation and I want to see what its like to have me be the weakest link in my riding.
you can trust me. I don't even have a mustache.

BlackNumberOne

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2005, 01:57:21 PM »
Quote
Being fast on the street is being slow on the track.  I was a fast street rider in my area and my first track day I was a mid-pack beginner group rider.
I am willing to be in the middle of the pack of the novice group. Just don't plan on staying there for more than a couple turns.


I have to see the difference between street/track riders 1st hand.... then i'll know all i need. i'm done w/ this thread i said. i don't want to be known as a big-headed loudmouth
you can trust me. I don't even have a mustache.

*Nemesis*

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2005, 02:01:17 PM »
So, all this talk without even getting out there on the track.

I say:




 :P :P :P

Jeff

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2005, 02:08:32 PM »
i'm done w/ this thread i said. i don't want to be known as a big-headed loudmouth

Quitting already?  Where's that iron determination and sponge-like personality?  You can learn a lot around here...  While Nem's just trying to educate you in humor, some other folks truly know what they're talking about, having 'been there & done that'.
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NewRedRider

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2005, 02:11:54 PM »
If you want to learn to be the fastest guy on the track you're going to crash. Except it. If you can't, don't bother trying. If you can't afford to toss the bike down the road a few times then don't bother. You'd only be fooling yourself.

Why not stay in your own little world and be the fastest guy in town? ???
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rjh200

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2005, 02:19:26 PM »
I'm in your boat, minus the fact that I don't think I will stand a chance my first season.  Unfortunately I can't this year but I am already starting to accumulate geat and what not for next year.  The majority of my riding season may be track days and schools next year.  I have been putting it off because of other financial constraints but come next year hell or high water I will be on the track and I will be racing by the year after.  Can I afford to throw my bike down the track and bring it back in a ball, not really.  Can I afford to spend all that money on prepping a bike, getting it to the track and other intangibles, not really but it sure as hell is not gonna stop me.   8)
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madmanu

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2005, 02:33:09 PM »
i don't want to be known as a big-headed loudmouth

We're just trying to give you some real world expectation about the matter and not trying to put you off or discourage you. The track is where the bike should be ridden anyway. Good luck on your plan in joining the race ranks  ;D

Jeff

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2005, 02:36:21 PM »
Maybe this will be my final reply...

Nailing a championship your 1st amateur year is absolutely possible.  However, you REALISTICALLY need to plan on at least $50k to do it.

This is what I wrote to the last guy I talked to who was going to buy a new GSXR-1K to race (and he'd never ridden a bike before)...

=================================START=================================

wow.. where to begin... To avoid carpal tunnel, I'll try to be as brief as I can.

Racing is not something that is just 'jumped into' and all fun, etc. It's more of a lifestyle than anything. Most people cannot handle racing for more than 2 years. At that point, they're fed up with the unGODLY expense, and tiresome effort required to run a season.

I've seen people lose homes, spouses and sometimes lives (on and off the track) due to racing.

The best possible advice I could give you would be to start as small as you can. Throwing around the comment of buying a GSXR-1000 and removing all the street parts to go racing, is not a very wise move in my personal experience. 3,4 or 5 years from now, if you're still racing, then, sure, go buy a new bike to race. This is what I do, but I've been racing a LONG time, and I'm well sponsored.

Pick up a used RACEBIKE. A used racebike will already have many necessary modifications already done, and you will save and benefit from this. Personally I would not recommend ANYONE "Start" out on a 1000. Start small, learn throttle control, enjoy the fact that a smaller bike uses less tires and is far more forgiving.

A used 600, or better yet, a used SV-650 which you can run lightweight classes with would be a very wise choice.

Here's what I whipped together in about 90 seconds that it will take to get you TO the track. This is "out of the gate, 1st initial costs". There are MANY other costs which I've left out (dzuz's fasteners $3/ea, safety wire, etc etc etc). This takes into consideration your 'new' bike.

Bike $9,000 (I gave you the benefit of a good discount here)
bodywork $600
paint $200
clipons $125
rearsets $300
damper $400
brake lines $100
exhaust $800
rear shock $1,100
fork work $500
power commander $300
dyno work $250
frame sliders $75
tires $350
fluids $200
gearing $100
Chain $100

Bike Total: $14,500


helmet $300
leathers $1,000
boots $200
gloves $100
back protector $150

Gear Total: $1,750

Tire warmers $300
Stands $250
canopy $200
tools $500

Misc Total $1,250

Grand Total: $17,500

And that's assuming you have a truck/trailer/van to GET to the track with. Again, this is day ONE. You haven't even touched the track yet (yep, that will cost you more).

Here's a MODEST race weekend:

Transportation $200
fuel for weekend $150
tires $350
entry fees $200
gate fees $50
practice day $100
food $100

Total: $1,150


This doesn't account for ANY repair or crash damage, or basic consumables (oil, brakes, coolant, gearing, etc etc).

If you've gotten this far, good, you're paying attention... Now that you're turned off and scared, let me go back to my original statements:

START SMALL!!!!

A used racebike already prepped should run you around $3-7k depending on how new, what work and how many spares/etc come with it.

Run 1-2 races per weekend and LEARN... Learn everthing you can, and make decisions from there. Listen to people who tell you to spend money on suspension, and riding schools. We know what we're talking about and we've made the mistakes.

Too many people jump into this, dump a wad of cash which they don't really have, and then give up because they crash a couple of times.

The sport can be incredibly rewarding and a great "lifestyle", but again, it truly is a lifestyle change which needs to be looked at carefully before making a serious plunge into it.

Hope that helps! :-)

=============================END============================

Okay, add to the above a YEAR of good SOLID training, figure $5k for this.  Plus some practice days to implement what you're learning $2k, plus the consumables used up during those days (tires/fuel/brakes/etc) $5k (modest).

Now, if you want to do a COMPLETE season, running 3-4 classes per weekend, you can EASILY count on $20k.

Yes, it can be done.  Given a reasonably adept student with a sizable budget and one very flexible year of committed training (on and off the track), I could get you a championship...

The problem is that few people have the money to do this. 

The vast majority are like you.  They think they're fast, they want to race, they end up spending money on the wrong things, crash a few times and hang up their leathers for good...
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SquidLid

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2005, 02:38:40 PM »
Confidence is a good thing, and can lead to pushing you into new territory for learning valuable skills.  Over-estimating your skills is a very bad thing.  It can lead you into thinking you're much faster than you really are, and you can get seriously hurt or die as a result.

Which one do you think qualifies for you BlackNumberOne?  No matter how fast you think you are out there, there's always going to be someone faster.  Take your time getting comfortable on the bike.  I rode dirt for 7 years before I got out on the street.  There's some skills that lend themselves naturally between the two categories, and there are others that don't correlate at all.  Have you been to the track at all?  The track and street are much different in and of themselves.  I've known dozens of people who tell me about how fast they are on the streets and when they get out to the track freeze up or wad in their first session.  Just to take it one step further, racing and doing trackdays are hugely different activities.  Racing takes up huge amounts of time and money to get to a level where you're competing with others.  Trackdays are loosely organized affairs with an emphasis on having a fun time.  Not a lot of competition out there; most of the fast guys/girls are out there prepping for upcoming races and could care less whether or not your lap times are close to theirs.  They will care if you take them and their bikes out, however.  

I know the RR is a great bike, but don't let the bike fool you into thinking you're a better rider than you really are.  Take a couple of track schools to increase your skill set, and then consider jumping into racing.

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2005, 02:40:04 PM »
That is freakin' expensive!!!

Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to trackdays...lol

Hi-Side

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2005, 02:53:02 PM »
Ugh, what a forking squid... I've said it before and I'll say it again... if you have to tell me how fast you are, then you're probably not very fast...

there's only one way to be sure... get off the internet and get on a bike and prove it... until then its all just oral diarhea  :jerkoff:
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rjh200

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Re: How many track days for me to be a better racer than you?
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2005, 02:54:51 PM »
Awesome write-up Jeff I really appreciate you posting that.  'Thumbs throught the classifieds looking for a part time job'  Looks like I have a lot of saving to do to get rerady for next year.   8)  Probably just to be the slowest mo-fo out there.   ;D
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