Honda CBR600RR Discussion Forum

Main Forum for Motorcycle discussion => FAQ Section (Frequently Asked Questions) => Topic started by: Jeff on August 24, 2003, 09:30:47 PM

Title: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on August 24, 2003, 09:30:47 PM
Okay so there was some debate over whether to disengage the bank-angle sensor (AKA - tip-over sensor).  Here's my very recent experience...

This last Friday during practice, I came through T1 at Blackhawk farms, 90mph right hander, and the bike died.  I thought it was out of gas or just starved from fuel since I was very low, but it started again so I didn't think twice about it.

It did the same thing on Sat AM in practice, and I vowed not to run the fuel so low.  Thought the bike might just be tempermental with it.

I topped the gas tank and went out for my Middle-Weight GP race.  Running 8th, I just cross the white flag.  1 lap to go!  Hit T1 and the bike DIES!  I get out of the way, but almost get clipped by the two guys behind me in the process.

Having a full tank of gas, I knew that was not the issue.

That only left the Bank-Angle Sensor.

The wiring is the same as the F4I and it CAN be jumper by-passed.

The jumper bypass is the two OUTSIDE connectors tied together at the plug.  (if memory serves me. I'll check tomorrow to be sure) the wire colors are Green to BLACK/WHITE.

I ran 2 more practices and 3 more races without incident...
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: BlackOps on August 25, 2003, 01:05:12 AM
1 lap left! I bet you were steamed about that. >:(
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Hi-Side on August 25, 2003, 09:48:43 AM
Where is the sensor located ?
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Christian on August 25, 2003, 10:43:45 AM
That sucks Jeff. Sorry to hear about that happening to you during your race. Please let us know where these are and how to disengage it so it doesn't happen to us while out riding the twisties. That woudl really suck being on a public road and having it die out. Question.....when it died is there a safety feature that allows the rear tire to continue rolling or does it lock up from being in gear and require the clutch to be pulled in?
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on August 25, 2003, 11:30:45 AM
The sensor is located in the front upper fairing.  If memory serves, it's between the headlight and the upper fairing.  You'd have to remove the headlight to get to it.

Terry, on your bike, if you didn't set it up, whoever did either bypassed it or it should be mounted on your fairing bracket.

It's a U shaped black box about the size of a lemon.

Personally I wouldn't disengage it on a street bike as the chance of tripping it is very slim.  Out of 700 race miles, I only tripped mine 3x.  Those are laps are run much harder than street miles are.

As for any safety feature to keep the rear wheel from locking, it's called inertia and traction...  If it were to trip on cold tires or slimy pavement you might lose traction, but when mine tripped, the bike slowed and I pulled in the clutch and coasted.  The most danger came from the guys on my tail who expected me to come out of the corner with the hammer down versus slowing up.  Luckily rider #1 heard my motor cut and rider #2 reacted quickly enough to miss me.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Hi-Side on August 25, 2003, 01:35:07 PM
Got it. I have it mounted right up front. In all my other bikes its been located under the tank, so I wasn't sure what relay it was. I've got to strip the bike down for paint this weekend and I'll do it then. Just took it out on the track again last weekend after the dyno work. Cut 2 full seconds off my best time ever on this particular track and still wasn't on the limit, although I was the fastest guy on the track that day. I absolutely love this bike.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on August 25, 2003, 03:04:17 PM
Same here.  My setup is perfect.  I'm no longer shagging tires and the thing is like a razor.

I swapped out the OEM pads for EBC-HH KIT pads (OEM pads were completely gone by 650 miles!), and that helped me a bit more too.  Every weekend I am lowering my lap times...  Going from amateur to expert this year, right now I'm 2-3 seconds off the 1st place experts, and 3 seconds faster than I was last year...
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Tufelhunden on August 25, 2003, 09:37:53 PM
Same here.  My setup is perfect.  I'm no longer shagging tires and the thing is like a razor.

I swapped out the OEM pads for EBC-HH KIT pads (OEM pads were completely gone by 650 miles!), and that helped me a bit more too.  Every weekend I am lowering my lap times...  Going from amateur to expert this year, right now I'm 2-3 seconds off the 1st place experts, and 3 seconds faster than I was last year...

Jeff you da man.  I was just going to ask you to write up another report of your racing times.  I was curious as to how they were progressing.  Great Job!!!  ;D
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on August 26, 2003, 07:49:47 AM
ask and you shall receive:

http://www.cbr600rr.com/pages/082403.htm
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: gholcomb on August 27, 2003, 01:41:15 PM
Hey Jeff,
  Can you confirm the wires you described in the initial post are the ones you want to jump to eliminate the tip-over switch? I haven't had a problem with mine, but I'd rather not have it on at all...

Thanks,
-Gus Holcomb
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on August 27, 2003, 02:57:48 PM
Absolutely positively 100%, they're the two outside wires jumped together.  I'll be into the bike in a few hours and will post the colors then...
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Hi-Side on August 28, 2003, 02:50:25 PM
Yep, I tested it first taking the switch off and simiulating a fall-over, and it turned the bike off, then stuck a meter across the switch to make sure that it was closing the contact to shut the motor off, then jumpered it outide wire to outside wire and it runs fine.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: cpchillin on August 28, 2003, 06:26:35 PM
For everyone who is using their bike for the street only DO NOT DO THIS!! As Jeff has said he only needs to do this for racing. If you are on the street doing this you are risking serious injury. It is there to keep the bike from doing many things when it goes down including catching fire and exploding. There is no true need for our Honda to need this done. A gixxer that's a different story because they were having problems with the design of their tip-over switch but not our bikes.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Christian on August 28, 2003, 11:50:54 PM
Guess I won't be disconnecting the tip-over switch anytime soon.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on August 29, 2003, 08:58:46 AM
For everyone who is using their bike for the street only DO NOT DO THIS!! As Jeff has said he only needs to do this for racing. If you are on the street doing this you are risking serious injury. It is there to keep the bike from doing many things when it goes down including catching fire and exploding. There is no true need for our Honda to need this done. A gixxer that's a different story because they were having problems with the design of their tip-over switch but not our bikes.

AMEN...  If you can get the sensor to trip on the street, bypass it while you're prepping it for the track because that's where you belong.

If you bypass this switch, and tip it over while running, you've got about 20 seconds go get to it and get it shut off before it pops from oil starvation...
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Marsh on September 16, 2003, 09:47:49 PM
For everyone who is using their bike for the street only DO NOT DO THIS!! As Jeff has said he only needs to do this for racing. If you are on the street doing this you are risking serious injury. It is there to keep the bike from doing many things when it goes down including catching fire and exploding. There is no true need for our Honda to need this done. A gixxer that's a different story because they were having problems with the design of their tip-over switch but not our bikes.
Thats why i posted this in the racing section as i knew that some of you would find the urge to get it off your bike without needing to.

Jeff can you confirm this as i dont want to go crossing stuff over and cause damage to the ecu or anything

option 2: just talked to the honda race team here in Australia and they recomend i still use it but that i fill te chamber up with some Automotive gear oil or something that will restrict the movement of the mechanism inside this thing,
using the oil if it does tip over it will take about 5 seconds before it is cut off.

I still need a temp fix for it as this will take some looking into

Thanks for all the help :)
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Marsh on September 17, 2003, 05:18:03 AM
sure thing its the two outside wires (on the bank angle sensor plug) like jeff said....

Bikes running! ;)


cheers
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on September 17, 2003, 10:20:17 AM
If you bust the switch open, you will find that it's already oil damped.  With that, I still managed to trip it numerous times under what I would call "normal racing" conditions.

If you're racing, pull it...  Don't mess around, just pull it...
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Marsh on September 17, 2003, 11:12:23 AM
yeah just turfing the thing

I think what they meant by using gear oil was to drain that oil out and use a heavier oil

while i got you jeff......

Does the raceglass need any heat shielding (thermotec mat) near the xhaust on the lower section?

a few other things im not sure about?

do you fiberglass the seuz fasteners in (anchor side)?

did you use rubber gromets under the tank section on the front and rear bolts?

have you lowered the front end at all ive been told its one of the first mods the racers are doing?

thanks in advance


Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on September 17, 2003, 01:03:38 PM
Does the raceglass need any heat shielding (thermotec mat) near the xhaust on the lower section?
Yes.  I used the metallic stuff from LP USA, but it doesn't stay on real well.  Then I thermo-tec wrapped the headers on the right side, but it's still getting VERY hot...  Such is life...

Quote
do you fiberglass the seuz fasteners in (anchor side)?
? huh ? I use the stock large fastner on each side, and then one bolt for the fairing stay (on each side).  That's it for the upper...  I then have 3 dzuzs on each side to hold the lower on.

Quote
did you use rubber gromets under the tank section on the front and rear bolts?
No.  In fact, I don't bolt down the rear section.  I just zip-tie the rear of the tank shell to the tail section.  It's quicker to get off that way.

Quote
have you lowered the front end at all ive been told its one of the first mods the racers are doing?

No.  This is such a stupid myth...  Don't listen to what everyone is telling you...

Pay for your advice, because the free stuff is not worth much...  My suspension tuner would beat you with a fork leg for such a suggestion...
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Texan32 on October 01, 2003, 08:55:17 AM
i have been reading through this thread.  It got me thinking.  Have any of you thought about a lanyard?  Like on a jetski?  I MX a 400ex.  ATVA regulations require us to run one....plus they only make sence.  The lanyard is a simple 2 wire switch that has a clip that can be removed causing loop closure.  The clip is attached to your body via a tether line.  If you fall off the machine, the clip is pulled and causes the ignition to be grounded (thats how my 400 and most jetski's work).  I don't know the wiring of the RR, but there has go to be a way that one of these could be utilized.  This would give you the best of both worlds.  No tip sensor AND a kill switch for when you feel like hopping off the bike coming out of a turn ::)

I have a few pictures of a common kill switch, but i don't know how to attach pictures here.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: snow on October 01, 2003, 01:38:08 PM
Quote
My suspension tuner would beat you with a fork leg for such a suggestion...

lol
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: MD-11 on October 02, 2003, 07:36:40 PM
I race mine but still am hesitant to just remove the switch for the oil starvation thing, but after this next race i'm thinking of putting a relay in instead of the switch tied in to the oil pressure sending unit.

Anyone have any thoughts if  this would be a bad idea?
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on October 02, 2003, 11:13:47 PM
Looking back, I'll bet I never did have a problem with my bank angle sensor.  I'm thinking all along it was my power commander.  However, since it's out, I'll leave it out.

I don't think I'd put in any other type of switch.  If I go down, either I will shut the bike off or the corner worker will within a few seconds.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: hondatech on October 03, 2003, 01:56:53 PM
L O fucking L.
















Thats all I have to say.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: MD-11 on October 04, 2003, 02:32:33 PM
Hondatech,

Any thoughts on the oil pressure cut out good idea or bad?
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: hondatech on October 04, 2003, 06:05:15 PM
I dunno. Now that we've found the tip over switch isn't faulty, I'd just use it and not complicate the woring any more. But on the other hand, I'd never tell a guy not to tinker. I think if it was me, I'd leave it.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: FOX on April 12, 2004, 11:23:31 PM
if you did not have to turn the igntion key to off and back to on then you did not trip the bank angle sensor. if the key stays in on and you can re-fire the bike you have a different problem. also, centripital (sp?) force will hold the sensor in the up position no matter what the lean angle you experence is. (at least in theory) most problems with this are a result of poor mounting of the sensor.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: muaythai_folife on April 12, 2004, 11:37:39 PM
centripital (sp?) .
centrifugal? im pretty sure
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: hondatech on April 13, 2004, 12:18:49 AM
centrifugal? im pretty sure


2 different words. Often confused with each other.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: SquidLid on April 13, 2004, 08:04:24 PM
Centrifugal versus centripital, as explained on the answer bag. Centrifugal force is a perceived force, not an actual force. It can only be viewed from the vantage point of the spinning object. For example, when turning in a car, the object in the seat next to us flies outward. We call that centrifugal force. Remember the law of intertia: all objects stay at rest or continue in a straight line unless acted on by an outside force. The object that flies outward is trying to continue in a straight line (the direction the car was headed before you started turning). There is just not enough friction on the seat next to you to keep the object constrained to the turn until it hits the door. If you add the vectors of movement on the turning car, it is found that the car is accelerating towards the center of the turn, not away from the center. This inward acceleration is called centripital force. That feeling of being "pushed out" when turning in a car is nothing more than resistance to the centripital force constraining the car.
Title: Re:Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: jezterr on April 14, 2004, 01:36:39 PM
Looking back, I'll bet I never did have a problem with my bank angle sensor.  I'm thinking all along it was my power commander.  However, since it's out, I'll leave it out.

I don't think I'd put in any other type of switch.  If I go down, either I will shut the bike off or the corner worker will within a few seconds.

ahhahaha... i don't think anyone's going to trust you anymore...  :)
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Meddiepie954rr on November 10, 2004, 12:53:18 AM
Well shit man.  I dunno, I'm having problems with my Bank Angle sensor right now.  I don't know where I'm gunna mount this thing.  I've got it strapped to the right side-back side of my fairing stay, and it keeps vibrating loose and falling down, and killing my engine.  I might just have to slice it.  But who knows, I'll look at it more tomorrow
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: BigTuna on November 10, 2004, 08:13:57 AM
Well shit man.  I dunno, I'm having problems with my Bank Angle sensor right now.  I don't know where I'm gunna mount this thing.  I've got it strapped to the right side-back side of my fairing stay, and it keeps vibrating loose and falling down, and killing my engine.  I might just have to slice it.  But who knows, I'll look at it more tomorrow

i diabled mine without issue.  I know Jeff found out his was an issue with his pciii, but i know of two people that had their engines cut because of the sensor.  Both spun up the rear wheel and when the bike snapped back straight up (near hi side) their sensor took enough of a jolt to have is shut the bike off......it was a big debate over removing it and keeping it.... i prefer to remove it...plus it saved 6oz.   :P
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: 96SNAKE03RR on November 30, 2004, 08:44:40 PM
^ +1

I did this to my track bike last season.
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on December 01, 2004, 11:38:06 AM
For mounting it, I took a small flat metal bar, zip tied the BAS to the bar and zip tied the bar to the back of the fairing stay.  It was solid and a good location...
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: tarmac on September 03, 2005, 04:16:59 AM
Whats the latest on this topic? Are more people removing them than keeping them?
I just bought a road bike and for some reason, the bankangle sensor has been cut off and the wires twisted together. I've never had a problem on my race bike, even with very near hi-sides, the engine has just kept going.
If I want to reconnect it, which I think is safer, the problem will be, the missing conector. Are these available to buy?
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: Jeff on September 04, 2005, 12:50:17 PM
I race with mine on with no problems...

Put it back on.  They're just wires, cut 'em and buy solder-on bullet connectors.
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: tarmac on September 05, 2005, 08:09:45 AM
Yeah, I'm going to reconnect it but it would be nice to use the honda type connectors.
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: UB2SLO on September 05, 2005, 07:40:32 PM
I have had mine removed for two full seasons.   On two different bikes with a total of five crashes, I haven't had a problem yet.  On every crash the bike has killed on its own.   We have had Jeff's problem with the PC3 on a hand full of bikes, but we have also had the tip over switch problem on two different bikes, at Blackhawk Farms.  So I am not real worried about not having it.  Just my two cents.   ;D
Title: Re: Bank-Angle Sensor
Post by: mobalized on July 28, 2007, 10:26:06 AM
as said earlier not to do this to a street bike, it is also recommended for stunt bikes because when holding a high enough wheelie it can cut the bike off