Honda CBR600RR Discussion Forum

Main Forum for Motorcycle discussion => FAQ Section (Frequently Asked Questions) => Topic started by: Badkarma on June 30, 2003, 02:14:25 PM

Title: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on June 30, 2003, 02:14:25 PM
Not sure if this has been talked about, but it happen to a few new RR's coming into the dealership I work for...

Here's the problem run your bike hot (abient temp +90F) on the streets coolent temp > 220F - turn your bike off....  then immediately turn on the bike on to the "ON" position (the fan should come on before you push start button) try to start it and you might notice the starter turns real slow or not @ all!

It would seem that the regulator rectifier (situated right behind the radiator and next to the headers on the left side of the bike) gets too hot...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Crash716 on June 30, 2003, 02:43:38 PM
this has happened to me twice >:( and both times i had to jump start the bike.  It seems to happen when you get stuck in traffic and the bike is at idle for awhile.  i honestly think it is just that junky batteries that put in them.  after i jump started it and got the revs up i shut it off again and it started fine.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on June 30, 2003, 04:37:44 PM
Well, according to my mechanic, the regulator rectifier is exceeding it's operating temperature while in idle and during stop and go hot temperature situations.  Honda has been notified, and he suspect they will come out with a retrofit heat shield or the thermostat is not not turning on the fan early enough....

I'm gussing you were able to restart the bike after it cool down a bit?
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Crash716 on June 30, 2003, 05:22:32 PM
the bike is back to normal when she cools down, but in san diego in the summer it might be happening all the time?  Bike is running pretty hot actually 210-225F in traffic and like 188-195F at highway or running the canyons.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on June 30, 2003, 05:26:39 PM
there's also another possibility that when the fan is on full blast, the system is unable to deliver enough juice to the starter...  we haven't try to short the fan and then start the bike when it's cool...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: CBR 600RR_TN on July 02, 2003, 01:27:39 AM
this sounds like a problem that older model chevy small block engines had becuase there starter got to hot(not a motorcyle but same problem).  A quick fix would be to get some ice or a rag soaked in cold water and place it on the over heated part.  It will cool it down quick and is much better than jump starting.  BTW don't jump start your bike off a car because its bad on the electrics.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on July 02, 2003, 02:29:49 AM
huh?  hey this is a brand new bike, we shouldn't have to put cold rags on anything right?

Anyhow AHM asked us to fedex the regulator rectifier directly to the product specialist, and we'll see what happens, meanwhile, any bike that has this issue, gets a new regulator rectifier as replacement.

Having a regulator rectifier few inches from the header is just a bad idea...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BlackOps on July 04, 2003, 01:23:06 PM
there's also another possibility that when the fan is on full blast, the system is unable to deliver enough juice to the starter...  we haven't try to short the fan and then start the bike when it's cool...


The fan should not be sucking all of the battery power.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on July 05, 2003, 03:06:51 AM
Agree, also if the rectifier stops working due to thermo shut down, then all accessories will drain the battery causing a weak start condition...

AHM R&D is actually flying up from LA to test ride with my customer to see how the bike is used.

I'll keep you guys posted :)
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on July 07, 2003, 10:23:46 PM
The regulator/rectifier theory doesn't seem very plausible. If it drained the battery, it wouls stay drained. And it doesn't have a temp sensor, so it doesn't even know how hot it is. The fan thing sounds kinda fishy too, that isn't much load, I don't see how it would drain the starter. I'm going to go log on to Honda net and see if they mention anything about it. If I find anything out, I'll post it.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BlackOps on July 08, 2003, 12:46:59 AM
I talked to the techs at the dealer today and they said they have not seen any problems come in so far.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on July 08, 2003, 12:58:08 AM
I know none of ours ever came back. Maybe I'll take one this weekend and see if I can make it exibit the behavior. I did check the Honda dealer network thing, no mention was made, maybe it's too new of a problem.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: LuvMyRR on July 08, 2003, 12:58:11 AM
This is starting to sound like a massive conspiracy cover-up :D  I only feel this way becaus I am having this problem as well.  Called American Honda Motor Co. and registered my complaint.  Thye said they would get back to me " Ya right!  I dare not drive with my high beam on. And every time I see slow traffic I'm think to myself "oH great"  THis blows!

Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on July 08, 2003, 04:18:47 AM
Hondatech, All due respect, if youíve taken any electrical engineering classes, EVERY modern power device has an operating range.  When the upper ranged is reached thermo shut down occurs to protect it self from damage, it does not need a separate temp sensor.  (You can ask all the VFR owners about their regulator/rectifier)  

If the regulator/rectifier was on the verge of thermo shut down its operation would naturally be very inefficient.  In that inefficient state the bike may start to drain more energy than replenished.  Further attempts to restart the bike with headlight on, fan - full blast combined with the regulator/rectifier in near thermo shut down may just exhibit the symptoms weíre discussing previously.  Naturally, when the bike is cooled, fan turned off, regulator/rectifier working correctly; there should be enough juice to get a few revolutions going on the alternator generating enough energy to get the bike started.

Reminder to all, anything posted here regarding this particular thread is of pure speculation.  Honda has not officially taken any position.
Concerning this customer few items are fact:
1. we were able to reproduce the problem in the shop easily.  Basically, no start when hot, starts when cooled.
2. Honda has asked us to fedex them the regulator/rectifier for inspection.
Sub note: on a very early crashed 600rr, a regulator/rectifier was ordered, we were subsequently call directly by AHM to find out why we need to order a regulator/rectifier.  Crash damage was the reason.
3.   Honda is coming to ride with the customer to see how the bike is used, requesting the customer to retrace exactly what was done.
4.   For now, a new regulator/rectifier and radiator temp sensor is to be replaced.
5.   This 600RR only has less than 50 miles on it.

Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on July 08, 2003, 11:01:18 AM
All due respect to you, but I don't need an electrical engineering course to teach me how a regulator rectifier works, but I think maybe you do. If the bike is not running, and you try to start it, and the starter cranks slow, it has nothing to do with the reg/rec. The regulator rectifier takes the high voltage AC the stator produces and converts it to a stable DC the battery can use to charge. If it isn't operating properly, the battery will either over charge, or not charge. Once the bike isn't running though, the reg/rec isn't being used. The bike starts off the battery. How hot the reg/rec is has nothing to do with it. In fact, you can remove it completely and your bike will still start and run fine. If running the bike drains the battery, and it needs to be charged to start back up, then it could be the reg/rec. If running it shuts it down and letting it cool starts it up, it can't really be the reg/rec. Wanna prove it? Go recreate the problem. As soon as the reg/rec heats up and the bike shuts down, pop a cold reg/rec off another bike on there and see if that makes it fire. I think you guys need to check battery voltage next time this bike shuts down, if you haven't already. If voltage is ok, you can eliminate the electrical system as a problem. Theres nothing on the bike that will charge the battery when it isn't running, right? So how does letting it sit cause it to start properly again? If your reg/rec theory was right, the battery would be draining no? How is it charging again by just sitting there? And I don't need to ask the VFR owners about their reg/rec. I've installed more than I care to remember. Not one did what the RR is doing.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Jeff on July 08, 2003, 12:25:26 PM
totally agree with Hondatech here.

The R/R hot/cold/in/out has NO bearing on whether the bike will start.  Only whether the battery will be charged.  (well, actually you'd have to jumper two wires to start the bike without the R/R)

I had a trail 90 which had a bad RR that I used to run just off of battery alone.  It ran great until the battery died.  Then I'd have to recharge.

Something else is causing the problem...  
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on July 08, 2003, 01:28:51 PM
totally agree with Hondatech here.

 (well, actually you'd have to jumper two wires to start the bike without the R/R)


I didn't think this was true, but I didn't to argue unless I could prove it. I went down and tried it. Bike will start with the reg/rec completely removed from the system. Started and idled normally.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on July 08, 2003, 05:30:07 PM
Yes the bike can start without the R/R, but you are taking the situation out of context.
  In your scenario, the bike is not hot, fan is not on full blast, nor is the R/R next to the headers for extended period of time.  In fact, if the R/R has been failing due to heat, the drainage on the battery is subjected to time.

Here are some possible scenarios:
Sitting in normal traffic Ė R/R overheats stops working correctly, drains your battery, get back on the highway, R/R cools down, recharges the battery - rider never even notices a problem.

Sitting in normal traffic Ė R/R overheats stop working correctly, drains your battery, the bike goes off for any reason, and (with the fan on full blast) rider canít start the bike and/or notices a slow start condition.  Though when the bike cools down, fan not on full blast, now just enough to turn the bike over.

Does any of this make any sense?

Iím only trying to share information; I hope I didnít upset anyone
  :-*
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on July 08, 2003, 09:37:03 PM
No one is upset, but the regualtor/rectifier just doesn't seem like it could be the problem. If it allows the battery to drain, then the bike won't start. It won't start hot and it won't start cold. The fan running wouldn't affect this. The fan takes nothing to run. It wouldn't keep the starter from spinning. Is the rr near the headers of the RR? Thats piss poor placement, to be sure. And for the record, the r/r has to be damn hot to stop working. Like really really hot. And when it gets there, it's time for replacment, it won't start working again. I'd bet large sums of money the reg/rec isn't going to turn out to be the culprit.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Jeff on July 08, 2003, 10:49:15 PM
I'm not offended or anything, and don't have my nickers in a bunch or nothing either.

The thought though is that if the battery was being drained this marginal by a reg/rect going on/off, it would appear pretty obvious, as the bike would BARELY crank over when cold.  

There's something else in it that's causing a vapor-lock condition (if that's even possible now-a-days), or the heat is expanding something...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Crash716 on July 08, 2003, 11:51:02 PM
I have had this problem, mine was fine when the low beams were on but after the highbeams were on for awhile and i shut the bike off it would not start.  Now i didn't wait for it to cool, i just jump started it and had no problems.  The only problem with jeff's theory is that low or high beams would have nothing to do with vapor lock problem or something expanding.  all of you have valid points but i took mine to the dealer and i now have a new Reg/Rec on order cause the old one isn't putting out enough juice to over come the highbeams drain when it gets hot, IE stop and go traffic in SOCAL.  Now whether or not my dealer (House of Motorcycles) or as i affectionitally call them "House of Thieves" knows what their doing is another story, but as soon as i get my baby back with her new Reg/Rec i will run it with the high beams in slow, hot traffic just to see if any of us know what the problem really is.  For know i have to put faith in my dealer though.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on July 09, 2003, 02:44:36 AM
I also have this happen to my personal 600rr, hence the spark in my interest in following up.  Though my experience did not lead me stranded, (facing SF down hills, I was able to pop start the bike)
Once it wouldn't start, on subsequent reproduction, a weak start condition.

Yes, the R/R is mounted mere 6 inches away from the headers in the front left on by the engine mount...  It would seem that the very heat sink designed to dissipate heat is now operating to "warm" up the R/R...

I'm still betting on the R/R being the issue, having my share of VFR users complaints, the "updated" R/R on the VFR is merely a added heat shield.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: PRIEST on July 10, 2003, 07:46:16 PM
 Dont mean to jump into your fight here but mine did the same thing and i turned the idle speed up to around 1300 and it is way better no more problems when hot, i think was running around 900 or so, hey check it out it may work!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: michl_moto on July 10, 2003, 09:01:44 PM
Wow, I stumbled on this topic with my quest to find out if anyone else was having the same problem as I.  
     I live near Atlanta, Georgia and I had am experiencing the same issue with the bike not starting.
     I was riding on I85 and pulled off for a fuel stop, filled up and the bike wouldn't crank. I had to pop it in second from a rolling start. I got home after riding the interstate the rest of the way and turned it off, then tried again and still it wouldn't start. I waited a few hours went back out to my bike and bingo she started right up. Anyway after calling the dealer the next day they asked me to bring it in and had noooo idea what it could be. They haven't had anyone else come in with that problem. They claim to be the highest volume dealer around. I really have a hard time believing that no one else is having this problem from around ATL.
     Additionally I can tell you it was around 85 degrees out and more noteably I had my high beam on to be more visible to other drivers. One more thing to note is I did change out my 55/60 H7 bulbs with 100w Bright white bulbs. I have 450 miles on my bike and have not had this problem until now, it clearly is a thermal related issue!  I will bring up this forum to the dealer when I bring the bike in...that is if it ever stops raining!!!!!!  
 
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BlackOps on July 11, 2003, 01:37:58 AM
I always run with the highbeams on and have been in 95-100 degree weather and I have not had one problem. I doubt it has anything to do with the lights at all.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Jeremy on July 11, 2003, 08:17:38 PM
ok, here's the solution to everyone's problem, i'll make a C/F r/r bracket with a C/F heat shield for the inside, you can buy it and see if that's the prob.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BlackOps on July 12, 2003, 02:50:57 AM
It sounds heat related. Has anyone checked the coolant temp when the bike starts to have this problem?
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on July 15, 2003, 08:51:02 PM
I have been monitoring these post for a while. All the while thinking, man, I'm pretty lucky Vancouver BC Canada's not that hot and I have not had this problem. Well, just joined the club today. After riding for about an hour, part freeway part city, the bike simply refuse to turn over. The lights on the instrument panel all shining bright, didn't look like lack of cranking joice. Push the starter button, tweet tweet, nothing. Between two three cranks the speedo would swing to the end and a light beeping sound. Luckily I was half a block to a hill. Push push push, down the hill and roll started the bike. I revved the motor pretty high for about 10 minutes. Then went to a 7-11 to get some milk, wife's orders. Came out, and the SAME DAMN PROBLEM. Only this time no hill, OH CRAP. I kinda lucked out this time. The 7-11 is in the middle of Vancouver's skidrow, and a fellow down on his luck came up to me and said 'just sit, I'll push'. He managed to get it up to around 15km/hr. Pop, and the bike started. I'm really really hoping that some fellow RRer that has had this problem has this problem solved and post his solution. Vancouver's roads are pretty flats. I hate to be constantly relying on the kindness of others. Especially, this is a BRAND NEW BIKE with only 300km on it.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BlackOps on July 15, 2003, 09:03:35 PM
Has anyone taken the bike to the dealership for evaluation yet? The damn thing is under warranty and they might have an idea of what is wrong. Just a thought though.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on July 15, 2003, 09:59:22 PM
My dealer is thinking it might be running Hi-beams on slow traffic. He said that the battery isn't recharging quick enough to make up for the Hi-beam battery drain when it's under 3000 rpm. He wants me to bring the battery in. They'll charge it up for 5 hours then go from there. I gonna run the bike for a few days on Lo-beam and see if the problem goes away. I'm grabbing at straws here. If the problem is the Hi-beam battery drain, would a more powerful aftermarket battery make the problem go away, and allow me to run Hi=beams all the time?
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: LuvMyRR on July 16, 2003, 01:39:28 AM
My bike does this too!  The first thing I would suggest is calling American Honda Motors (check your owner's manual) and register a complaint!  If there are enough of us that speak up  they may issue a recall to fix the affected units. I think some techs are looking into it as we speak.  I have noticed however that the problem is exasperated by use of high beams at low RPMs (stop and go traffic) and by heat (regulator/rectifier shutdown?)  I also find that if I give it some really good revs before I know I am going to be turning off the bike it helps a bit too!  I did not buy a Ducati for the reasons I am experienceing now.  I thought Hondas were supposed to be rock solid (like the Civics) :'(

I will wait for a few months next time before I buy a brand new model of bike though.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on July 16, 2003, 04:24:48 AM
Fellow HOT Bike sufferers, I would lodge a complaint with AHM but I'm in Canada. I will put forth my input to Honda motorcycles here in Canada. I called around a couple of dealerships here, none of them has seen this problem. I'm not sure if that's the standard reply or really they have not seen any with these problems.
I found that now my bike starts after a long cooling down period, but it's still taking 2-3 cranks before the motor kicks in. It's latenight here right now, I'm going to the gym in my complex and work out for half an hour. I'm gonna make sure if the same proble happens tomorrow, I'll be pumped enough to even push start it going uphill. :-\
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BananaRider on July 17, 2003, 01:48:30 AM
I live in San Diego and the weather has been pretty warm lately. my high beam is on pretty much all the time and there is much stop and go traffic here and so far havent had any starting problems, but if i do start to experience this problem i will have to make a complaintto AHM.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: LuvMyRR on July 17, 2003, 11:24:03 PM
Went to a Honda dealer today for something unrelated, but I asked one of the service guys if he had heard anything about this problem that some of us are experiencing.  He knew what I was talking about before I even opened my mouth.  He said that Honda is definately aware of it and it is a big problem and  that the "may" issue a recall.  But when you think about it,  how bad would the publicity be for this bike and for Honda who hyped this bike so much?  So if you are interested in a fix, then I think just harrasing your dealer and Honda Motors personally within your warranty period, maybe they'll do something.  For now I just keep the revs up and don't use my highbeam in hot, stop and go traffic and I usually don't have a problem.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on July 18, 2003, 12:58:09 AM
Thanks for the info LuvMyRR. If you manage to catch the Recall number when and if Honda decide to act on this, please post. I will be going going down to my dealership weekly also. If I catch wind of a Recall number, I will post the info immediately.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: michl_moto on July 21, 2003, 03:10:14 PM
Well, I called the dealership today, I'm bringing the bike in tomorrow. It has 550 miles on it and I had nothing but problems starting it all weekend. I rode hwy at 6-7000rpm all day and everytime I tried starting it after getting gas or tunring it off it wouldn't start. If I left the bike for a hour or so it starts right back up. The dealership has told me I can't run my hi-beams all the time. The 600RR is optimized and can't put off enough power to charge the battery if the hi's are on too long. They just want to "look" at it but they don't think they can do anything. They have told me not to run the hi beams. I'm sorry, but if this is the best honda can do with their reputation I don't want a Honda CBR600RR anymore. I think I will start shopping for a nice left over Yamaha R1 for almost the same price I see they are pricing them at $8,899 right now on all colors. I hate to take this route. I like the bike otherwise, but if I have to pop it everytime to start it I'm afraid I'm going to start doing other damage to the bike.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Badkarma on July 22, 2003, 01:21:45 PM
See, this is where it doesn't make sense...  if the battery is too weak, why would it start when cooled?  Something else is wrong...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: CBRMarine on July 22, 2003, 10:25:24 PM
After reading all of these posts I decided to see if my bike had any of the problems riding around with the high beams on. Monday, I rode around for about an hour in traffic. (I moved about a total of 7 miles the whole hour) Luckily I had no problems starting afterwards. It was like 89 that day and the water temp stayed around 224F. Today I took it to work, a 50 mile round trip and also I had no problems. I'm going to keep checking.
Also, I talked to the dealer. He said he hasn't heard from anyone around town with the same problem.
If something comes up I'll be sure to make a complaint to Honda and let you guys know what happened. Maybe we can figure this out w/o Honda.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: michl_moto on July 29, 2003, 05:15:27 PM
     Ok, here ya'all go!

     I just got off the phone with American Honda Corporation, Customer Service, 310-532-9811 ask for Dave and tell him Michael from Atlanta sent you.  I brought my bike into the dealer last week, they didn't have a clue what was going on, dorks (i.e. Lawrenceville Honda, Ga).  I then filed a complaint to Honda at the number listed.  AHC customer service called the dealer and talked them through checking my 600RR.

     Honda is aware of the problem, in fact so much so they have a fix!!! Yippie, we are all not nuts after all!!!! Well the good/bad news. They are replacing every aspect of my charging system. Battery, regulator/rectifier, etc etc.... I really am very happy that honda has acknowledged the problem and that they have a fix now. We just need to keep the preassure on so that everyone with this problem is made aware and gets the fix on there new CBR600RR!!! The bad news is I've had my bike into the dealer for 5days before they even had a chance to look at it, they now need to order the parts and then install them. It looks like two weeks I will be without my bike!!! Beware if you plan on going this route and get the fix!!! That is unless your dealer is more efficient than Lawrenceville Honda in Georgia is. If you have friends in the ATL tell them NOT TO BUY at Lawrenceville Honda...PLEASE!!!!

    Good luck and let me know how you all made out!!! Also realise this if your bike is not experiencing this problem now, it will at some point unless you get his fix or it was made with the fix already on the production line. Put the preassure on Honda, they have a great name and great products I don't want to see them get a bit laxed.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Jeff on July 29, 2003, 06:53:04 PM
ok, here's the solution to everyone's problem, i'll make a C/F r/r bracket with a C/F heat shield for the inside, you can buy it and see if that's the prob.

Go ahead... but you'll induce another problem.  The bike won't run...

The R/R needs to be grounded out by contact  8)

Also, as a side-note, during my 700 miles of race conditions so far, I have had ZERO problems with the bike starting, even when it's +220deg.  Then again, if I don't have any lights, etc I likely wouldn't experience it...

Good to see Honda has a fix, now I'll just have to take a look to see if its worth my time to replace the stuff, esp since I don't have a problem...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: CocaColaKid on July 29, 2003, 07:21:08 PM
1. Check the battery voltage during this condition
2. Check the current draw on the battery with ignition on
3. Check current when turning over bike, or trying to turn over bike
4. After trying to turn over the bike is the headlight really dim? If not then the problem is not battery related.

Something that might be worth looking at is faultly starter motor windings. When they get hot they might short out and produce the same effect. Let it cool down and it works fine. Since everything is packed in so close the heat coming off the engine would be transferred into the starter.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: LuvMyRR on July 29, 2003, 09:56:23 PM
Hey thank mchl-moto!

Going to call Honda tomorrow and get that guy Dave to contact my delaer and inform them of the fix.  Hope everything will go smoothly.  
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on July 30, 2003, 01:32:07 AM
Thanks michl_moto , good work :) :) :). I got a question for fellow canadians. Are there any fellow Canucks having this problem? Talked to two dealerships and we seems to be three steps behind.  :-\If anyone knows that Honda Canada came up with a fix also, please post. I will do likewise.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Jeff on July 30, 2003, 12:48:43 PM
It's too cold in Canada for you to experience these types of problems  ;D
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on July 30, 2003, 02:56:20 PM
Yeah Jeff, I wish that was the case. No such luck. Had to roll start my bike a few times already. Haven't experienced the problem again, but I also haven't turned on my highbeams since my last roll start few weeks back.  :'(
I WANT MY HI-BEAMS back
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: LuvMyRR on July 30, 2003, 05:51:11 PM
Spoke to American Honda today and they said that they are advising that people who experience this problem should not drive with thier highbeams on.  Didn't speak to Dave but I am calling back and am going to try to get him on the line to see if he will be more helpful.  They are assholes at honda.  
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: michl_moto on July 31, 2003, 10:18:56 AM
Spoke to American Honda today and they said that they are advising that people who experience this problem should not drive with thier highbeams on.  Didn't speak to Dave but I am calling back and am going to try to get him on the line to see if he will be more helpful.  They are assholes at honda.  

Well, that's not surprising.  I can tell you that dealing with customer service is never an easy procedure because it cost's someone money, usually the company your calling. Be diligent and courteous, and if all else fails raise the issue higher and higher.  I ran into the same trouble but in the end, I was explicitly told that Honda is aware of this problem and has a fix. That fix was to replace the entire charging system with a new revision that has higher outputs and can support the addiditonal amperage draw of the hi beams, that fix is happening now. It was clear that this is a design flaw.  Understand that this is a first year run, manufacturers always have issues with that.  We are there beta testers.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Jeff on July 31, 2003, 10:41:44 AM
You guys are just using the bike wrong...

Pull the lights! they don't do you any good on the track anyhow  ;D
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BlackOps on August 01, 2003, 01:14:18 AM
Good point Jeff, but what about those who didn't buy the bike to race? Then again you could just duct tape a mag light to the front fender. That will be Honda's fix for the problem.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on August 01, 2003, 01:19:38 AM
michl_moto, in your last post you had mentioned that the fix is happening now. Did you catch wind whether or not Honda is planning a recall for everyone to get the fix, or only the squeekyest wheels will get the oil?
Thx
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BlackOps on August 01, 2003, 01:22:56 AM
So would stuff like this be covered in a recall when the warranty runs out? Anyone?  :P
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: michl_moto on August 01, 2003, 02:26:54 AM
michl_moto, in your last post you had mentioned that the fix is happening now. Did you catch wind whether or not Honda is planning a recall for everyone to get the fix, or only the squeekyest wheels will get the oil?
Thx
Wolfy, Squeaky wheel syndrome unfortunately!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Jeff on August 01, 2003, 11:46:55 AM
So would stuff like this be covered in a recall when the warranty runs out? Anyone?  :P

Raise enough of a stink and it'll get replaced regardless of age...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Christian on August 01, 2003, 07:47:28 PM
I ride with my highbeams on all the time and the only problem I have experienced is one time when I stopped and shut off the motor for a very short time it was slow to turn the engine over when I went to start it again but did start a few seconds later. Other than that I have been golden.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cpchillin on August 03, 2003, 03:50:00 AM
If having the high-beams on causes the problem than it's the relay that is mounted in between the headlights!! If the relay is getting to hot than maybe the metal won't touch right, but that seems awfully weird.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: michl_moto on August 04, 2003, 12:18:37 AM
Alright new twist, I went to the dealer to pick my bike up on Friday. They finally finished the warranty work for the starting problem.  I was told previously that Honda was aware of the problem and has a fix.  The fix was to replace every aspect of my charging system, regulator/rectifier, stator, battery etc... The dealer completed the work and said we will see you soon, in a weird way. I said why is that? Well come to find out Honda doesn't have a fix. They are aware of the problem and want a bunch if these systems failing to analyze. So come to find out they haven't fixed anything they just replaced my parts with OEM parts. Well it will be interesting if I still see the problem. I will let everyone know when and if I experience the problem again. I hate the games they are playing with me on this problem.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on August 04, 2003, 12:28:24 AM
michl_moto, sorry to hear about that. I was starting to think that I might be seeing light at the end of the Honda tunnel.

I have a question to pose to any fellow RR riders that has made te HID conversion. Since one main contributing factor to this problem is hi-beams being on, are there anyone having this problem after making the change to HID? Would anyone know how much power is drawn by the HIDs on Hi-Beam? Also,I'm hoping anyone with HIDs to perhaps experiment with their HIDs being on Hi-Beams all the time for a day or two.

If HIDs can solve this problem and let me have my Hi-Beams back without the chance of pushing my bike around town, then HIDs wold be a very worthwhile investment for me.

Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cpchillin on August 04, 2003, 11:41:38 PM
HID's when warmed up pull about 30% less current than halogen bulbs! I think that the problem is that the starting relay is right between the two headlights. Now I can't remember if the HID's run cooler than the halogens. Honda needs to figure out a better place to put the starting relay. I haven't had the problem and I've been running my bike hard in 90 degree heat with high humidity.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: CBRMarine on August 05, 2003, 12:17:32 AM
Just knowing how relays work in cars. I almost positive the relay is the problem. They work by an electrical charge being applied to an electromagnet(hitting the starter button) and this attracts a metal rocker to connect to the contact. If it get overheated, it may cause the mount the rockers are on to shrink just enough to jam the rocker. BUT if you hit the starter button and still hear a click then this can not be your problem... Listen to the relay when you start. They are normally pretty audible.  If this is the problem, Honda will have to relocate it.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on August 06, 2003, 06:03:43 PM
Just curious. I know there are alot of members in this forum that's not here in US or Canada, but in GB, Australia, etc. Are there any members not in North America that are also having this problem with their RR? If so, how are your dealerships treating you?
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cocoblack on August 08, 2003, 05:33:21 PM
 :D Why dont we all gang up, Drive to honda and raise a big stink. Think all of those office yuppies will run when they see all of those bikers. We can demand new aftermarket HID's and soft seats.LOL.Just a thought.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on August 09, 2003, 04:46:35 AM
DAY 40 Since this thread was started by Badkarma.

Still no whispers of a fix in sight from Honda. Although I have not experienced this problem again, cause I simply don't used hi-beams except blipping it on to warn left-turner '2 WHEELS COMING THRU'. I'm starting to get worried. Maybe Honda think, "They're MOTORCYCLIST not 4-wheel softies. Maybe they can tuff it out". I'm sure Harley guys been through worse situations than choosing between hi-beams and roll-starts. If they don't come out with a recall fix by the time next model year come out. And I get confirmation that next year's RR doesn't have this problem. I'm trading it and getting another yellow one.  :'(
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Marsh on August 09, 2003, 11:48:57 AM
No problems here in Australia ;)
But i dont ride with the beams on either :)
"dont you guys think that it gets more cager attention if you flash them rather than blind them with the beams" :-\
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: LuvMyRR on August 09, 2003, 10:44:28 PM
I have had majot problems with this. But now that I do not ride with the high beams on except for short blasts on the highway at night, I haven't had a problem starting. Therefore I am convinced that high beam usage is the problem.  

However, I am experiencing really high engine temps.  Please read my thread in this section about it.  Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Tufelhunden on August 10, 2003, 12:53:06 AM
I ride high beams all the time, during the day and have not had a problem yet (100 miles in 105+ weather.  Maybe you guys should all see what month your bikes were made.  Mine was in made in March 2003.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: blk-RR on August 12, 2003, 09:36:33 PM
i have had a slight problem with this too. my bike did start but it was very slow to turn over. i dont remember if i had the high beams on or not but it only happens when its hot like everyone has said. i wish that the 600rr came with the h.i.d.'s! if this fixes the problem let us all know
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: marcmcm on August 12, 2003, 11:26:42 PM
I haven't turned my high beams off in probably 500 miles of riding and it has been 90+ for days here.  I've never had a problem.  Hope I don't either
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on August 13, 2003, 11:16:19 PM
So would stuff like this be covered in a recall when the warranty runs out? Anyone?  :P

A recall is a federal thing. It has nothing to do with warranty. A recall is put out for a safety issue, and it can't be ignored by a dealer, it's against the law. In fact, if you bring the bike in for an oil change, and theres a recall on it, it's against the law to give your bike back to you without doing the recall. When a recall has been performed on a bike, a permant mark will be made on the bike so it can be identifed forever. Usually a punch mark somewhere on the frame. This issue, if they choose to approach it, will most likely be cleared up with a Service Bulliten, which is for non safety stuff. It is something that is done for free by the dealer, and usually has an experation date, but isn't related to warranty. Honda recently started an "owners link" section of their page. I guess you can punch in your vin and find out if theres any bulletins, or recalls on your bike. They were also going to provide web space for pics of your bike and that kind of stuff, look around the site for a link. I'm going to go check out the Honda Network Service site and see if anything has been written about this since I last checked.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Wolfy on August 14, 2003, 12:35:45 AM
So would stuff like this be covered in a recall when the warranty runs out? Anyone?  :P

A recall is a federal thing. It has nothing to do with warranty. A recall is put out for a safety issue, and it can't be ignored by a dealer, it's against the law. In fact, if you bring the bike in for an oil change, and theres a recall on it, it's against the law to give your bike back to you without doing the recall. When a recall has been performed on a bike, a permant mark will be made on the bike so it can be identifed forever. Usually a punch mark somewhere on the frame. This issue, if they choose to approach it, will most likely be cleared up with a Service Bulliten, which is for non safety stuff. It is something that is done for free by the dealer, and usually has an experation date, but isn't related to warranty. Honda recently started an "owners link" section of their page. I guess you can punch in your vin and find out if theres any bulletins, or recalls on your bike. They were also going to provide web space for pics of your bike and that kind of stuff, look around the site for a link. I'm going to go check out the Honda Network Service site and see if anything has been written about this since I last checked.

Thanks Hondatech for checking and keeping us informed. I'm in Canada and wouldn't be able to sign up for any of those board that you mentioned.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on August 14, 2003, 08:30:25 AM
The owner link thing shiuld be world wide, look around Honda's site, I'm not sure if it's up and going yet, but I got a memo last week saying they were working on it. I'll see if I can dig some info today. As for the possible service bulletin, the Honda Network site hasn't listed any problems yet, so any dealers that know, know because of customers that called Honda, Honda hasn't sent out word to the dealers yet.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: SRADman on August 18, 2003, 11:39:23 AM
so is there a recal or not i need to know if i should contact my dealership or if they will look at me like i am an idiot
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on August 18, 2003, 11:41:19 AM
No, there isn't. If there was, you'd have gotten at least one, and probably more letters by now. If you haven't had any problems, don't worry bout it.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: SRADman on August 18, 2003, 11:43:44 AM
No, there isn't. If there was, you'd have gotten at least one, and probably more letters by now. If you haven't had any problems, don't worry bout it.

thanks ;D
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: dyazdani on August 20, 2003, 03:04:31 PM
Wow, lots of discussion on this.  I bought my 600RR a week or so ago and mine has the same problem.  I charge the battery and obviously it starts fine.  After riding around a while, the battery is dead and will not start the bike again.  Charge the battery again and again, back to normal.

I believe I have a bad rectifier/regulator, why?  The hot/cool issue has no bearing.

1) Started at the stator (feeds 3 phase AC power to R/R), it is located inside the engine case (you can see a wire coming out of the round case cover on the left side).  Disconnect the R/R from the stator and check voltages.  All voltages good, >50V @ 3-4000 RPM.

2) Hook everything back up, check voltages at the battery terminals while bike is off.  Should be ~12.5 - 13v for a good battery.

3) Start engine and rev it to 4-5000 RPM.  Battery terminal voltage should be 14-14.5 V as it should be getting power from the R/R.

Summary:  The rectifier is getting the proper power, however it is not feeding it to the battery for one reason or another.  I dropped it off at my dealer yesterday.  I will let everyone know if it is some bizzare problem.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: dyazdani on August 20, 2003, 04:56:05 PM
Just got a call from the shop.  They confirmed my findings and are express shipping a new rectifier/regulator.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: 1966chevy on September 05, 2003, 09:30:12 PM
I guess I'm lucky.    I've got about 1200 miles on mine now in very hot Alabama weather, with the high beams on, stop and go traffic, and I haven't had any problems.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: N600rr on September 15, 2003, 12:09:00 PM
Anyone have any new news from Honda or delear on this issue??

Asking cause over the weekend after riding, seeemed like my starter was weak to turnover??  Only happened once but thought I'd ask.

Thanks...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Goro on September 15, 2003, 03:52:18 PM
I've only had problems with my at the begining just ridint it around the block but when I took it on the street never had problems ever again
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: tiltedworld on September 17, 2003, 03:55:18 PM
Mine just started to develop the problem, after 4000 trouble free miles,  Has happened twice in one week, and one of the times the engine was cool  >:(

Anyone get a good fix from Honda, someone reported it is fixed for 2004 in another thread, doesn't this mean there is a fix out there, even if it means replacing the whole charging system with a 2004?

Here's the quote from the other thread:

This is what I've beenb told from honda about the lights. It's the style to have one on in Japan so they carried it over here. To make up for the extra power drain of the second headlight you have to be at 11k or above. It's not meant to be ridden with. I like to ride with my high beam on. But I'm also careful about pissing people off. They have to be able to see also. They also said that it's going to be corrected in 2004.

I have a track day in a few weeks, my first and I'm not about to put my bike in the shop to be tinkered with when I'm supposed to go to the track.  Unless there is a quick fix of course!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: dyazdani on September 17, 2003, 06:08:50 PM
I haven't had a problem since the regulator was replaced.  You sure want your bike to start if you are going to be on the track though.  I'd check to make sure the r/r is not burned out.  It's a quick replacement, part is about $130.  I got mine for free, warranty.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: tiltedworld on September 17, 2003, 07:28:24 PM
I haven't had a problem since the regulator was replaced.  You sure want your bike to start if you are going to be on the track though.  I'd check to make sure the r/r is not burned out.  It's a quick replacement, part is about $130.  I got mine for free, warranty.

Even riding with the high-beam on?  Thing is it's not happening every day.  I can always bump-start it for the track if neccessary.  I'm guessing its the regulator too, I'll talk to my dealer tommorow when I bring my fiancee's bike in to get the CCT replaced (F4i) and a new shock put in (the stock one was assembled ass backwards and doesn't allow the preload ring to be adjusted correctly.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: dyazdani on September 18, 2003, 01:43:07 AM
You can bump it at 1st, but if you stall, it kinda sucks.  I don't use the high beam much, so I can't comment - only used it for short rides <3 miles.  Shock adjustments are a funny thing, especially when you disassemble the fork tube.  There is a special way to put them back together in order to get the right adjustment.  It is not mentioned in the service manual.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: tiltedworld on September 18, 2003, 01:52:13 PM
I use second to bump start, little easier than first IMO

No her rear shock, the plate under the preload ring spins, not allowing preload adjustment unless you really futz with it. Someone screwed up big  ::)

Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: kaya2happy on September 29, 2003, 08:34:57 AM
supposed to be fixed for 2004...what did they do?  Have they updated the regulator?  Charging unit?  Battery?  Headlights?  More importantly, what can we do?  I am in the process of making this the meanest 600rr on the road/track and I'm going to stop right now if there is no fix for the '03 and trade it in on an '04 or perhaps even switch manufacturers.  I have gone with Honda over the years for reliability.  If that's gone so is my relationship with Honda.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cpchillin on September 29, 2003, 08:54:54 AM
Most people that I know have never had this problem! If you haven't had the problem than you probably won't. Keep making your RR badass and don't worry be happy.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: dyazdani on September 29, 2003, 10:56:45 AM
I agree.  I haven't had any problem since the broken regulator was replaced.  No issues with charging rate, headlights on high beam, etc.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: N600rr on October 06, 2003, 07:17:29 PM
Hey, did anyone get any final "FIX" or solution to this problem, seems like lots of people were experiencing it but no clear answer??

Had this happen a second time, honda dealer says, don't ride with highbeams on.  Need to too keep RPM above 5k to recharge battery.

Called honda america, spoke with Dave (as stated in one of the posts).  He told me Matt who took my original call is handling my case and that all cases are individualy handled, but he seemed very defensive about the whole thing.  

Anyway, Matt said if it happens again to call him and see the dealer?? Customers service does not seem the running high over there.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: armourbl on October 24, 2003, 08:58:42 PM
Well, I've read through this post and I find it troubling.

I'm all set to go buy a new RR tomorrow and then I read this thread. DAMN.

The 1998 VFR800FI that I currently own is exibiting this very same problem. I live in Phoenix, and with constant temps above 100, you can bet my bike was getting hot. Sometimes my bike would actually just turn off complete while idling at a red light. Then, push the starter and nothing. But oddly enough I could push start it -- not fun push starting a VFR.

Just when I couldn't take it anymore, unsure of the real problem so I buy a new battery, the temps have cooled down. I haven't seen the problem symptom ever since getting the new battery -- but I seriously doubt the battery was too blame.

I too stopped using the high beams, but it didn't help. Only cooler weather helped as far as I can see.

All of this was part of my motivation to get the new RR, but now I'm worried.

ben
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: tiltedworld on October 24, 2003, 09:24:31 PM
Hi all,

Just got back from my track day, whoooa it was awesome!!!  This bike is UNBELIEVABLE on the track!  I was able to keep up with RC51's down the front straight  :o

But yet again the bike is having starting issues, and was for the week before the event.  And to boot I had purposely NOT used my highbeams, so that cannot be the sole issue.

I kept re-charging the battery with a trickle charger and here's the weird thing.  My charger automatically switches to trickle once the battery is fully charged.  Now if the battery is getting so drained that it can't turn over, then why the hell is the battery fully charged after only 30 min?!?!? and switching to trickle.

At the track it started for every session, until I got to the afternoon when it was a little warmer ~85 degress and the bike didn't really get a chance to cool off.  Had to bump start it for the last two sessions. :( And believe me it was being revved way above 5k rpms  ;)

Needless to say it goes in tommorow for service.  I will post the findings when they figure it out.  Hopefully it will be within a few weeks, as I want to squeeze in another track day before the rains start. "Hi my name is Brendan and I am a new track addict  8)."
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on October 24, 2003, 10:14:23 PM
Quote
I'm all set to go buy a new RR tomorrow and then I read this thread. DAMN.

The 1998 VFR800FI that I currently own is exibiting this very same problem. I live in Phoenix, and with constant temps above 100, you can bet my bike was getting hot. Sometimes my bike would actually just turn off complete while idling at a red light. Then, push the starter and nothing. But oddly enough I could push start it -- not fun push starting a VFR.

The battery isn't your problem. The regulator/rectifier is. It's a fairly common problem with the CBR/VFR series. Don't let this whole thing sour you on the RR, it's a great bike. This thing hasn't affected too damn many bikes. Very few really.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: tiltedworld on October 28, 2003, 06:12:44 PM
Believe it or not, the dealership stated the cause as a faulty battery and that the rectifier/charging system was operating normally.  The service manager replaced it under warrantee.  As he's seen this happen to another RR and he knows that I'm not just tooling around town on it, he's interested to see if it happens again.  If so he said he'd keep pushing it through Honda till they fixed it right.

I was very surprised to pay zero for the battery, considering the reputation this particular dealer has, but I've never had a problem with their service department.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: pUrExTc on December 23, 2003, 03:16:22 AM
i haven't had this problem, and i've started it while it read 222 degrees F.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: laubin on January 18, 2004, 03:52:06 AM
ever look at the angle the battery sits at?! kinda steep ..eh?
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on January 18, 2004, 12:04:02 PM
So what?
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: pUrExTc on January 18, 2004, 10:38:13 PM
i don't see why the battery angle would affect anything...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: 600DubRizzle on January 19, 2004, 11:23:05 AM
ever look at the angle the battery sits at?! kinda steep ..eh?

It shouldn't have anything to do with it, but I'll be interested in hearing laub's reasoning on this.  Especially since the battery leans A LOT when turning the bike.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: laubin on January 20, 2004, 01:50:11 AM
ok ..I pulled mine out( back in August)..cause I suspected some weak starts I was having..and yep the fluid was a bit low...easy fix.. and it never reared its head again but the angle shouldn't harm it performance wise ...right..unless its low and you can't tell 'cause the angle gives an off reading...now I'm assuming mine was low from the dealer and the heat didn't help either ...anyway I do keep an eye on it...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: pUrExTc on January 20, 2004, 05:46:14 AM
ever look at the angle the battery sits at?! kinda steep ..eh?
Especially since the battery leans A LOT when turning the bike.

Hahahahaha!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: 600DubRizzle on January 20, 2004, 09:10:23 AM
ok ..I pulled mine out( back in August)..cause I suspected some weak starts I was having..and yep the fluid was a bit low...easy fix.. and it never reared its head again but the angle shouldn't harm it performance wise ...right..unless its low and you can't tell 'cause the angle gives an off reading...now I'm assuming mine was low from the dealer and the heat didn't help either ...anyway I do keep an eye on it...

Ohhhhhh, I see now.  Thanks for clearing that up sweetums.  :)
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: pUrExTc on January 22, 2004, 09:56:28 PM
i'm still not clear on battery angle and power outage!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: 600DubRizzle on January 22, 2004, 09:59:36 PM
Got nuttin to do with power.  The angle gives an inaccurate reading when checking the water in the battery.  Low water will cause battery problems.  8)
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: pUrExTc on January 22, 2004, 10:03:13 PM
oh...ok!  thanks for clearing that up sweetums!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on January 22, 2004, 10:28:16 PM
You don't take water readings on the batteries laying down in the bike. Those tyoe of batteries are glass matt batteries, no liquid.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cpchillin on January 22, 2004, 11:08:35 PM
I wish that Optima would make motorcycle batteries! The only problem with Optima is that they are heavy, but I don't know how much heavier than regular batteries. I've used a Red top in my Acura with an 1800watt car audio system and it's never gone bad, and recently in the cold weather it starts as quick as during the summer even. Other car batteries I've used have died because of the strain from the audio system and in the winter they sometimes need a minute to start the car.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondatech on January 22, 2004, 11:15:03 PM
The batteries in modern bikes are as good as those optima things.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: laubin on January 23, 2004, 01:03:19 AM
IMOP optima is overated . We jumped on that ban wagon for our fllet vehicles and found they have alot of charging problems..ie optimas like to be slow charged...really slow..don't know if they weighed more..but they sure cost more and went just as dead as anything else we could get our hands on....Our battery''s fluid level cannot be checked in the bike...Really I was commenting on the angle  for the sake of it...my last battery in my 900 sat pretty much level....doesn't really matter
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Souperfly on January 30, 2004, 10:51:57 AM
I've only had one problem with my RR not starting.  But that was during a ERC course where we rode for 3min, turned the bike off, started then rode again for about 3min..   Fan was blowing the entire time, bike hovered around 220F.  But I think the culpret there was starting, stopping, and the fact that I let the fan run with the bike off to try and cool it down.  A quick push start and a couple runs up to higher RPM and it started fine everytime.

 ;D
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: pUrExTc on February 23, 2004, 10:20:07 PM
i finally had this problem.

i drove from school to work (and had lots of red lights to wait through).  when i stopped at work to pick up my pay check, i was there for maybe 5 minutes.  i came back out to start my bike, but it wouldn't start.  in the end, i push started it...put it in 1st, pulled in the clutch, and pushed it down the street.  got it up to 5~7MPH and kept truckin'.  did this for quiet some time, and hit the starter...no go.  clock was reset to 1:00 and no sound from the starter at all.  just a clicking when i'd push the starter.  had to call HRCA for free road side assistance.

although HRCA's rep did apologize for the inconvenience, and the jump was paid for by Honda, if this has been happening a lot, when it does happen to you, take advantage of your HRCA benefit.  if it happens as much as it seems to be occurring on this forum, and enough calls are put in to HRCA, maybe they'll remedy our problem.

it sucks that this happened on my day off, but it could've been worse.  it could've been on a day when i work, making me late...
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: desertcbr on March 24, 2004, 11:11:46 PM
FYI on this problem. I got my bike during a mild heat wave here in AZ so it's already been in temps of 95 degrees in traffic and so far no heat related issues. The bike is a 2003 model. My typical temp at a stop light is 220-222, the fan kicks in at 220 degrees.

D
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: imahontech on April 04, 2004, 12:42:08 AM
The batteries are sealed at the factory. The dealer doesn't add fluid or even check the fluid. If the battery doesn't read the right voltage the dealer should charge the battery before putting it into a new bike.
 
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: RandomJointer on April 08, 2004, 12:52:31 PM
I was wondering if this problem maybe due to the indicator lights being permanantly lit on US bikes. I haven't heard of anyone in Blighty having this problem. Maybe with 4 extra bulbs lit and the highbeams on it's more than the battery/charging system was designed to service.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: CaliColin on April 09, 2004, 04:36:26 AM
Hey, nobody here mentioned that they added a heat shield to the regulator/rectifier for the '04 models. My co-worker got an '04 and it's clearly visible through the big hole in the fairing. Obviously it was a problem.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: desertcbr on April 11, 2004, 05:12:33 PM
Hey, nobody here mentioned that they added a heat shield to the regulator/rectifier for the '04 models. My co-worker got an '04 and it's clearly visible through the big hole in the fairing. Obviously it was a problem.

If it is or was a problem then why is my bike not showing symptoms? I just had her out the other day and was stuck in traffic coming back from a long ride, the traffic was stop and go and she was getting hot (227 degrees F.) I got stuck behing a train crossing so I decided to shut the bike off, I thought at that very moment "oh shit, I hope it starts again, that damn hot start issue!" Well, the gates lifted and she kicked over w/o the slightest hesitation. My bike is 2003 model.

Just thought I would add this update, as it gets hotter I will post if I run into any problems.

D
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: CustOm_600RR on April 21, 2004, 02:46:11 PM
I have had the same problem. It seems like the battery isn't charging. I went and asked my local honda dealership and they told me that Honda built this bike so that the bike can only handle so much of power draining equip b4 the battery dies. The rr was supposedly built so that it doesnt really charge up your battery unless u hit the fwy @ high speeds. The manager @ the dealership told me that it requires for you to pass 8000rpm for the battery to start charging and if you have any aftermarket headlights then that may be draining your battery to so it wont start. He also said that honda buil it this way because it gives it more power or sumdin like that... maybe thats why it's shuutting off on you. The bike isnt chargin when your on idle or on city streets. It's really meant for track and not street riding. So yea.. i guess you juss gotta pik up the revz. I know where your coming from... my bike has died twice in the last 2 months. Well good luck to you guys
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: pUrExTc on April 23, 2004, 06:46:24 AM
read the MOM.  charging starts at 5000 RPM.

had this problem, took it to the dealer, told me my bike wasn't charging the battery at all.  a rectifier problem.  replaced it with a '04's.  works just fine now.  all covered by warranty.

i don't think it's the 8000rpm mentioned before.  i rode from ucla to home (about 45 min) at 90 MPH non-stop.  got home just fine.  wouldn't start the next day.

take your bikes in to your dealers before your warranty is up!
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: LuvMyRR on April 24, 2004, 06:24:16 PM
Yeah, my bike would'nt start after 20 plus minutes on the freeway at above 8000 RPMs. That's  Bulls**t!  TOok it to the dealer.  They replaced the rectifier.  Still sucks.  Took it back.  They have '04 parts on order: rectifier, stator etc.  They sayt that Honda says this will cure the problem. I heard of another guy who went through this and the '04 parts did not help.  

I am curious to see how my bike will behave after this swap out.

I can understand that maybe under some circumstances like having the bike idle for half an hour with the fan on but not after riding the freeway for half an hour with no fan activitiy or highbeams.
Title: Re:NE1 have this problem? Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Lily on June 17, 2004, 05:11:39 AM
I'm so glad to hear that this is a component problem.  I was starting to feel bad cuz my friend told me the battery drained because I wasn't riding enough and should be ashamed to call myself a biker (even though the problem occured at the end of a full day of riding...)

Anyhow, it appears that only some will have this problem because my last one, which got stolen at 1200 miles, had zero problems... whereas my current one died at 960... wouldn't start even after it cools down.

Thanks to all you knowledgable people... I will call my dealer tomorrow to see about that warranty on the regulator/rectifier.
Title: Re:Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: hondaGURL600RR on August 17, 2004, 01:55:41 AM
Okay...I've read through this entire thread and I really wished I read this a year ago when I first got my 600rr. The day after I brought my bike home, we had the same problems, but being the newbies we are, we just thought it was battery problems. We let the bike charge every once in a while and it was fine until I took it in for my 600 mile service.  We told the dealer (Quinsey Powersports, Lemon Grove - San Diego) about it and they said they would check the charging systems while it was there for the service. When we picked up the bike, they said that it was fine and the battery was at full charge.  So we didn't think much of it and would ride the bike every weekend or every other weekend. 3 or 4 months ago we decided to buy a battery tender to see if trickle charging it while in between riding sessions would help, and it did, until last week. We went for a pretty long ride around San Diego, and on the way home we stopped to eat. My bike must have been turned off for at least 30-45 minutes, and it wouldn't start when I was ready to leave. It was pretty embarassing being the only one in our group that was having problems. So...we hooked the sucker up to the batter tender yet again this past week...and went to get gas in my bike before another long ride...and it died AGAIN...this time while taking a turn. Today I was so fed up with it, because I've called the dealer 3 or 4 times and even threatened to report them to the BBB and the Honda Motorcycle Corp. because they won't do anything about this problem. I paid an extra $500+ for an extended warranty that they won't even use! Today I went to Alba Action Sports in Poway to get a battery and paid for it just to see if it really is the battery. I'm assuming that if this doesn't solve the problem, I must be having the same problem that everyone else is having. But, just to be safe, I'm going to try out the new battery JUST so I can have something to back up my story when I go back to Quinsey and really file a complaint with their GM.

Anyhow...just had a few questions though before I do try to take my bike in for service under the warranty.

1) Do I HAVE to take my bike back to the dealer I purchased the warranty through, or can I take it to another dealer for warranty service?

2) How much haggling did you have to do to get someone to finally contact Honda directly about this problem?

3) After replacing the '03 parts with '04 parts, did the problem stop?
Title: Re:Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: 600DubRizzle on August 17, 2004, 09:24:20 AM
1) Do I HAVE to take my bike back to the dealer I purchased the warranty through, or can I take it to another dealer for warranty service?

No, you can take it to any Honda dealer for warranty repair.  

I'm not sure about the other questions.  Good luck, and welcome to the site. 8)
Title: Re:Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Greg2561 on October 10, 2004, 10:43:41 PM
Most likely your regulator/rectifier (R/R) has gone south, another not uncommon problem with CBR's. The R/R is a part of the charging system that regulates the voltage to keep the battery charged. When the R/R fails the battery is not being sufficiently recharged, and the bike will not have enough electrical power to run and will stop running.

To check the R/R, recharge your battery, and check the voltage with a multi-meterónote the reading. Start the bike and recheck the battery voltage. While checking rev the engine to approximately 5K rpm slowly while checking your multi-meter. If you don't see the voltage rise as it revs to somewhere between 13 and 15 volts, you have a problem.

The most common problem that would cause this is that the R/R is not working, which on a CBR600 is located on the right rear subframe behind the body panel.

And Hondatech, you are right, the R/R has nothing to due with starting the bike. It will start without it as you say. But what you fail to understand is that if the R/R overheated, it stopped performing, thus was not charging the battery. Hense, when the bike was shut off, the voltage was already below 12v, probably somewhere around 10.5 or maybe less. Therefore, the bike would not start.

My R/R just recently started going bad on my 94 CBR900. Of course, I did not know this at the time, but I was having the same problem. Would start fine, drive 30 miles or so, turn the bike off and try to restart right away, forget it. I thought it was the battery at first, so I replaced it. Same thing happened again.  ;)

I hooked up a voltage meter wired directly to the battery and mounted it next to the tach. Startup was fine, showed 12.5 volts and went to 12.9v at idle. Revved it up and got 13.5v. So far so good. Went for a ride and at 5000 rpm was at 14.1v. All of the sudden, it dropped to 13.3, then 13.1, then 12.9 then 12.6, then 12.4, then 12.2. This was all while at or above 5k rpm. revving higher actually seemed to make it worse. Realizing this was a bad thing, I pulled the clutch in, turned off the iginition(while doing about 90 mph), restarted and was back up to 14.1v. The more I rode the more I had to play this start restart game. I was about 50 miles from home, so I decided to just hit the kill switch while the clutch was in, and hit run, then release the clutch to restart. I figured this was wearing the battery down more, as well as the starter. I eventually made it home after doing this at least 30 times.

The problem is that without a voltmeter, you have no way of knowing that the R/R is failing, and therefore by the time you realize it, it is too late. You have either lost power while riding, or stopped and couldn't restart because the battery is completely dead.

Honda is very aware of this problem and has rectified the rectifier by adding heat fins to help dissipate the heat. Here is a statement from a parts supplier:
It is well known that the NC35/NC30 and many
other Honda models' Regulator/Rectifiers would
often go bad and cause riders to get stranded
without lights at night, and even completely stranded in the middle of nowhere.  Honda has done something about it.

Part numbers 31600-KY2-600,
31600-KY2-701, 31600-KY2-702,
31600-Ky2-703 and 31600-MV4-000 have
now all been replaced by Honda
part number
31600-MV4-010.

Now with cooling fins to help prevent
overheating.

I have also read of people putting CPU cooling fans on the rectifier, and moving the rectifier to in front of the radiator where it will get cooler air. The part is expensive from Honda, about $200. I am going to get one this week, and am already making plans to do one of the previous methods to reduce heat on the rectifier so as not to burn up another one. Good luck guys, hope this helps a little. I am still pissed off about it, but at least I know what the problem is. That makes me feel a little better!
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: bame on November 11, 2004, 04:29:58 PM
although i didnt read all 8 pages of this topic i did read a good amount... mostly speculation though. all i know is that my bike hasnt restarted 3 times lately. twice while it was 200+ an once jsut now at 170. i guess my question is how do our bikes recharge the battery? do we have alternators? or do we have to be moveing at high speeds to recharge. i ask this because im a student an live on campus so during the week a lot of my trips are really short an i dont go past 20mph. so i figure maybe im just slowly draining the battery.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: rjh200 on November 11, 2004, 04:32:04 PM
Typically the battery does not charge well below 5-6k rpms. 
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: PaikyPoo on November 11, 2004, 04:37:00 PM
although i didnt read all 8 pages of this topic i did read a good amount... mostly speculation though. all i know is that my bike hasnt restarted 3 times lately. twice while it was 200+ an once jsut now at 170. i guess my question is how do our bikes recharge the battery? do we have alternators? or do we have to be moveing at high speeds to recharge. i ask this because im a student an live on campus so during the week a lot of my trips are really short an i dont go past 20mph. so i figure maybe im just slowly draining the battery.

yes, the rr comes with an alternator.  u should be at least 3k rpms to get any sort of charging to the battery.  5k+ is optimal.  sitting at idle drains the battery.  i suggest riding around campus with your highbeam off.  other then that... take her out on a streat with at least a 35mph limit and ride around for 10 minutes or so.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Greg2561 on November 11, 2004, 08:59:11 PM
I† did not post a follow up, but I replaced the R/R, part number 31600-MV4-010 on Oct. 12, 2004. (see my first post on 10/10/04 on page 8. That was the problem, no doubt about it. I also put 2 CPU cooling fans around it to keep it from getting too hot. I have decided to leave the volt meter up on the guage cluster. It is small enough not to be a nuicance, and I like to be able to see where the volts are.

These posts that are saying that the battery will not charge below 5-6k rpm are totally false. Sitting at idle and or riding at 2-3k rpm WILL NOT DRAIN THE BATTERY! I don't care what any manual or mechanic says, the volt meter doesn't lie.

After replacing the rectifier, at an idle of about 1100 rpm, my volts are between 13.6 and 14.1 VDC. At 6k rpm and about 100 mph, I am between 13.8 and 14.2. During a hot Miami day cruising South Beach, I can be at idle with the fan on and still be at about 13.2 + VDC.† I have never seen it above 14.4. If your battery is fairly good, and your bike is not restarting, you better check the R/R. The easiest way is to rig a voltmeter, the one I got is from Autozone, you can see a picture of it here: http://www.cetsolar.com/voltmeter.htm† †

I used a cigarette lighter extension plug, and ran wires from my battery, under the tank, up under the guage cluster with the plug end just behind the tach. Then I put a piece of velcro in between the tach and speedo and mounted it right there.

With the bike off and battery charged, you should get between 12.3 to 13.3 VDC. Start it up and ride around for at least 30 minutes. If your volts ever drop below 12.6, your R/R is bad. It may take some time to see it drop, or it may happen right away. With mine, it would start after about 10 minutes of riding, regardless if it was on the expressway at 80+ mph, or in stop and go traffic.

You can get them at the dealer for about $125 to $150, or if you can wait a week or so, you can get it here for $70 + s/h. http://www.mugen571.com/RVF400RegRecUpdate.html

I hope this resolves any questions about this common problem with the R/R.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: bame on November 12, 2004, 03:14:57 AM
whats the R/R again?
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cpchillin on November 12, 2004, 09:37:28 AM
Regulator /Rectifier. The bike's "alternator", which is called a stator, makes AC voltage. The R/R turns it into DC!
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: bame on November 15, 2004, 06:11:14 PM
i think i might just have a short... im thinking it might be from the new front blinkers i put in. in the past i have proven to have sloppy wire work. . . maybe some wires are touching metal, would this cause a lost of electricity?
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: NewRedRider on November 16, 2004, 08:22:10 PM
i think i might just have a short... im thinking it might be from the new front blinkers i put in. in the past i have proven to have sloppy wire work. . . maybe some wires are touching metal, would this cause a lost of electricity?

Yes
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: aren on December 30, 2004, 08:41:33 PM
Have you guys or Honda sorted the problem yet? I'm really interested in what's causing the bike to not start because our Daytona 600s have the EXACT same issue. When the bike gets to 220-230 F, it starts to bog down a bit. For some people the bike will shut off completely. And then the bike will not start.

It hasn't happened to me, but sometimes the bike will turn off at take-off when it's getting really hot. Usually when I'm at a stoplight for awhile. I experience the bogging down a lot, though.

Do you guys get any of the bogging at low revs when it gets super hot?
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: 600DubRizzle on December 31, 2004, 09:16:25 AM
Have you guys or Honda sorted the problem yet? I'm really interested in what's causing the bike to not start because our Daytona 600s have the EXACT same issue. When the bike gets to 220-230 F, it starts to bog down a bit. For some people the bike will shut off completely. And then the bike will not start.

It hasn't happened to me, but sometimes the bike will turn off at take-off when it's getting really hot. Usually when I'm at a stoplight for awhile. I experience the bogging down a lot, though.

Do you guys get any of the bogging at low revs when it gets super hot?

Your issue sounds more like a fuel pressure problem than an electrical problem.  Your bike is most likely experiencing vapor lock in the fuel line, creating a lean air/fuel ratio when the temperature gets too high.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: bame on April 15, 2005, 05:22:10 PM
my prob was a semi dead bat... didnt like the consistant short trips to class.... got it fixed a while ago, charged the bat an its been a few months now with no problems.... not that this is the same problem as the heat issue.. but it could be.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BoraBora on December 16, 2006, 06:45:58 PM
I have a 2004 CBR600RR.  I have had it since I bought it new in January '04.  It has the new style rectifier with the cooling fins and the heat shield.  I always ride with the high beams on.  I have never had starting issues until September of 2006. 

I rode about 30 miles, on the highway, got off, was stuck in slow moving traffic for about 10 minutes, then pulled into a gas station.  The ambient temp was about 80 and the bike's gauge read about 210.
After filling up with gas, I pushed the starter to be greeted by a very slow crank.  Too slow to crank the engine over.  I pushed the bike out of the way to the side and tried again.  The starter would not turn anymore.  I looked at the lights and they were bright.  I hit the horn and it was loud.  I thought that was weird.
Anyway, I push started it and rode 30 miles back home on the highway.  I pulled into my garage, turned the bike off, then tried to restart it.  The starter would not turn. 
A few hours later, I went to try to start the bike and it turned over like it had a brand new battery.

The weather cooled down after that and I never had any starting issues after that.  Then it happened once with the temp at about 195.  The starter cranked very slow but it started the bike.

Obviously the problem is heat related.  The question I have are:

1. I have the new supposedly improved rectifier with the fins and the heat shield.  Are the 2004 rectifiers defective as well?

2. As Hondatech stated very early in this thread, if it is the rectifier shutting down when hot and not letting the battery charge, why would the batterry regain power once it is cooled down after the engine has been turned off? 

3. Has anyone found a cure for this?  I am a member of 600rr.net and a thread regarding this problem pops up every so often but nobody seems to have any concrete solution for it.

4. Since I didn't have this problem for 2 1/2 years, is the battery starting to go bad?  Should I replace it?  The thing is, the battery seems to be in full health when it is cold, which is the total opposite of what usually occurs with old batteries.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: maskale on December 16, 2006, 07:31:27 PM
You could get the battery tested at your auto parts store for free just to eliminate that.
When batteries run low you can let them set a while and they may get enough juice to crank the bike. Kind of like if you leave your car lights on and then try to start it but it wont, you turn the lights off let it set and it may start after a hour of setting. Other than that I dont know, I have not had this problem.  But Fret will love you for using the search function. Fill out the intro and stick around bro.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BoraBora on December 16, 2006, 08:04:45 PM
You could get the battery tested at your auto parts store for free just to eliminate that.
When batteries run low you can let them set a while and they may get enough juice to crank the bike. Kind of like if you leave your car lights on and then try to start it but it wont, you turn the lights off let it set and it may start after a hour of setting. Other than that I dont know, I have not had this problem.  But Fret will love you for using the search function. Fill out the intro and stick around bro.

Thanks dude.  I'm going to pull the battery and check the water level.  I keep it charged all the time on the Battery Tender and it goes on green as soon as I hook it up so I think the battery is OK....unless there is a reason that a battery that is starting to deteriorate only shows signs of weakness when the bike is hot??

Regardless, based on all the posts here as well as on 600rr.net, this is a common problem.  The bike can sit for a week and in the middle of a 20 degree day, start up instantly.  But when it gets hot, it doesn't start.....something is not right here.  Have any of you guys that have posted in the last 9 pages including badkarma ever get this issue resolved?  Anybody get anywhere with Honda?
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cbr600rr_blue on April 17, 2007, 09:32:06 AM
I have a 2004 CBR600RR.  I have had it since I bought it new in January '04.  It has the new style rectifier with the cooling fins and the heat shield.  I always ride with the high beams on.  I have never had starting issues until September of 2006. 

I rode about 30 miles, on the highway, got off, was stuck in slow moving traffic for about 10 minutes, then pulled into a gas station.  The ambient temp was about 80 and the bike's gauge read about 210.
After filling up with gas, I pushed the starter to be greeted by a very slow crank.  Too slow to crank the engine over.  I pushed the bike out of the way to the side and tried again.  The starter would not turn anymore.  I looked at the lights and they were bright.  I hit the horn and it was loud.  I thought that was weird.
Anyway, I push started it and rode 30 miles back home on the highway.  I pulled into my garage, turned the bike off, then tried to restart it.  The starter would not turn. 
A few hours later, I went to try to start the bike and it turned over like it had a brand new battery.

The weather cooled down after that and I never had any starting issues after that.  Then it happened once with the temp at about 195.  The starter cranked very slow but it started the bike.

Obviously the problem is heat related.  The question I have are:

1. I have the new supposedly improved rectifier with the fins and the heat shield.  Are the 2004 rectifiers defective as well?

2. As Hondatech stated very early in this thread, if it is the rectifier shutting down when hot and not letting the battery charge, why would the batterry regain power once it is cooled down after the engine has been turned off? 

3. Has anyone found a cure for this?  I am a member of 600rr.net and a thread regarding this problem pops up every so often but nobody seems to have any concrete solution for it.

4. Since I didn't have this problem for 2 1/2 years, is the battery starting to go bad?  Should I replace it?  The thing is, the battery seems to be in full health when it is cold, which is the total opposite of what usually occurs with old batteries.

It is quite some time already. Don't know if anyone got solution for this issue. Mine RR5 is getting worse right now. 600rr.net does not seem to have solution as well. Why are honda bikes so bad nowadays? 
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Ozjack on April 20, 2007, 03:56:53 AM
Your 05`er is doing this too?? I very much doubt it`s electrical related. The bike seems to get very sluggish engine-wise when it`s hot(fan temperature...) so maybe it has something to do with it not wanting to turn over in this condition??

Does your bike bump-start(eliminating the starter) when it doesn`t fire from the switch??

I am yet to have my 04 fault this way, but it CERTAINLY turns over heaps slower when it`s hot.
Say, for example, I need to lube the chain after a track session, the bike has it`s fan on from returning to the pits at low speed. The starter button turns he engine over, but it only turns over about 1/3 the speed of a normal temperature start. I can see how some bikes wouldn`t start at all in this situation(mine barely does...).

Very odd. ???
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: cbr600rr_blue on April 20, 2007, 11:27:40 PM
Your 05`er is doing this too?? I very much doubt it`s electrical related. The bike seems to get very sluggish engine-wise when it`s hot(fan temperature...) so maybe it has something to do with it not wanting to turn over in this condition??

Does your bike bump-start(eliminating the starter) when it doesn`t fire from the switch??

I am yet to have my 04 fault this way, but it CERTAINLY turns over heaps slower when it`s hot.
Say, for example, I need to lube the chain after a track session, the bike has it`s fan on from returning to the pits at low speed. The starter button turns he engine over, but it only turns over about 1/3 the speed of a normal temperature start. I can see how some bikes wouldn`t start at all in this situation(mine barely does...).

Very odd. ???

I bump start the bike when battery cannot turn the starter.
I notice 1/3 starter turning speed quite some time when fan temperature reach. Recently, the problem getting worse because battery deteriorates slightly.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: Ozjack on April 21, 2007, 04:33:42 AM
Maybe next time the bke is hot when you get home, whip the seat off and check the battery with a voltmeter.
That will give us a diagnosis of whether it`s electrical or not.
Title: Re: Hot bike wont turn over with start button?
Post by: BoraBora on May 16, 2007, 02:03:46 AM
During the winter, I started the habit of plugging in the Battery Tender Junior every night to keep the battery 100%, and the problem seems to have disappeared.  Granted we have not had any real hot days here in CT since last Summer when I first had this problem.  I will reserve judgement until this Summer.  If I can go through July and August without this problem resurfacing, knock on wood, I can say with confidence that the problem has been solved.