2006 CBR600RR versus 2006 CBR1000RR

[Grady]

 

Se what you started Grady. This is all your god damn fault. Now Fret haits Oz, Oz haits all street sport bike riders and it's all fu&%ked up here in CBR land. You should apoligize to everyone.

 

[Fretless33]

Fret that bike is a 1000cc, the exact reason why i recommended he buy it for 2-up(because it`s better than the 600rr...).
Keith Code would have something to say about what causes steering and weight distrubution problems, as doing what you said(and think is "bad") is what ELIMINATES instability. Further validating what I said about needing to rev the bike for accelleration, and at low street speeds will cause the bike to run very hot indeed.
You can feather the clutch at low revs all you like, but it still doesn`t make it a good 2-up bike

You are a fool...

I'm not trying to argue that a 600cc is better or worse than a 1000cc for riding 2 up; in fact, I agree that sports bikes (600 or 1000) suck for riding 2 up...what I am discussing (or trying to understand) is your unexplained and rather strange attitude that riding a sport bike any way other than being in the power band, or riding like you're attempting a podium finish is straight up motorcycle abuse...that riding 2 up is going to make your bike over heat, or you have to rev to 10,000 rpms to roll from a stop on a 600cc bike...

I can do nothing but agree with Keith Code, but you're attempt to bring him into this discussion makes no sense and reveals that you didn't get my point...have you ever had a scared passenger on the back of your bike? Oh yea...you're too much of a track rider to do this...but for those of us that have, an uneasy passenger will lean the wrong way, adjust during turns, lean and push on you, so that's what's bad...not Keith Code's bad...that's a different bad.

I understand that bikes (all bikes, not just sport) are unstable at slow speeds, but you make it seem like they absolutely cannot be ridden when going at a moderate pace...what do you think I do, attach pedals on my RR when I commute? I guess I'm a dynamic rider and can adjust to any riding situation and condition, unlike some that have to only track ride...if you need to limit yourself, go ahead.

You have an attitude that comes off more bizarre than arrogant, but a mixture of both and whether you're too chicken shit to ride on the street or not doesn't make another that will a fool...

[Ozjack]

I understand that bikes (all bikes, not just sport) are unstable at slow speeds, but you make it seem like they absolutely cannot be ridden when going at a moderate pace...what do you think I do, attach pedals on my RR when I commute? I guess I'm a dynamic rider and can adjust to any riding situation and condition

Sportsbikes are designed to be stable ONLY when the throttle is being wound on, that`s what makes it a SPORTS bike. If you are not accellerating, you should be turning a corner. It`s what the bike is designed specifically for.
To make a sportsbike ride at "moderate/sedate" pace means you are required to ride the bike incorrectly. Speed doesn`t come from "riding fast", it is a result of riding the sportsbike CORRECTLY. A bike can be fast while the rider is very sedate(and is usually necessary!!). Therefore, "going at a moderate pace" means you are "adjusting your riding to any situation" and riding incorrectly, which is not only making hard work for yourself but is making the sportbike an illogical choice of transport.
You can either ride the sportsbike on the road correctly-and attract a lot of police attention and risk-or simply ride the bike on a swept, empty road(ie the racetrack), which is what I have been wise enough to do.
If you still can`t see why sportsbikes are a bad choice of transport then you really can`t think logically.
Why make a sportsbike fit needs it wasn`t designed for?? It`s like taking your Ferrari down to get a litre of milk...when a family sedan will do it much more comfortably and within the speed limit with safety.

what I am discussing (or trying to understand) is your unexplained and rather strange attitude that riding a sport bike any way other than being in the power band, or riding like you're attempting a podium finish is straight up motorcycle abuse...that riding 2 up is going to make your bike over heat, or you have to rev to 10,000 rpms to roll from a stop on a 600cc bike...

You need to rev the bike hard to get a good stable bike from take off. Doing this around the public streets(which inherently has a lot of stops) means the bike is unable to get a good constant flow of air through the radiator, and *whalla* you`ve got a very hot bike.
Sportsbikes are DESIGNED to be ridden in the powerband, riding like you`re attempting a podium finish. They simply fit a rear seat and flashing lights so shmucks like you will buy one(wider target audience), and if you don`t ride your bikes like that then why on earth did you buy one? Do you also own a speedboat for fishing and an army tank to go camping?
I think you`ll understand now what I meant in my first post in the thread....

[bbuker]

A possibly interesting point I'd like to add: I've read multiple accounts where during riding schools (Jason Pridmore's STAR comes to mind) the instructor will take clients for a couple laps aboard a stock street bike and people say it's the fastest lap they've ever experienced. I believe the two-up capabilities have little to do with engine size, and nothing to do with the type of bike. It's all the skill and experience of the rider and trust from the passenger that make a good two-up experience.
My view on litre bikes (anyone remember how this thread started? ): Every few months I start to get a hard-on for a litre bike so I trade bikes for a few miles with a friend and I never seem to have as much fun. It' a lot of work for me to keep a 1k under control. Corners come up WAY faster, and the damn thing wants to either step out or wheelie on every corner exit. With how good 600's have gotten in the last four years and how rediculous the 1000's have gotten, I'll probably stick with 600's.

[Ozjack]

the instructor will take clients for a couple laps aboard a stock street bike and people say it's the fastest lap they've ever experienced. I believe the two-up capabilities have little to do with engine size, and nothing to do with the type of bike. It's all the skill and experience of the rider and trust from the passenger that make a good two-up experience.

+1 for trackriding!
A 600 ridden correctly like that on the street will overheat with stop/starts though, as the revs need to be up. These bikes can be made to work excellently 2-up or single, it`s the situation we use them(usually the streets) that can cause trouble

[Fretless33]

Well...it's good to see you have a completely closed, narrow mind Oz...why did I buy a 600rr as a commuter/track bike...because I could! I walked into a motorcycle dealer and said, "I'll take that yellow one" and off I rode a few hours later.

I understand your point about these bikes being intended for track use and if I was close minded and suffered from black and white thinking, I would be right beside you shouting..."Yea...sport bikes are only for the track," but I try to avoid living in a fantasy world, fooling myself into believing that no one else on this planet will buy a sport bike for anything but track days...get real dude...are you trying to be all hardcore about this to fool yourself into thinking you're some kind of racer or something?

I'm by no means new to riding, I put on a lot of miles in my days and the RR is my first sport bike after nearly 30 years of riding and being around motorcycles, so how can you possibly claim I have no right to purchase a sport bike because it won't be used exclusively for the track...how can you be that close minded?

On the street, I ride the bike as correctly as I can given the traffic, weather and mental conditions and when I get to the track I pull out my track brain and do the best I can...I've done pretty good so far...Am I trying to be a big, bad track star like you?...HELL NO! I go out to enjoy the thrill of another dimension of motorcycling like I have been for years!

[hairbag]

Oz your just plain wrong and I'll tell you why. Honda would not produce a motorcycle available to the general public for street use with a factory warranty that was not able to deal with rigors of street riding conditions, one up or two. My comments in this thread so far have just been for fun but at this point it's clear your very uninformed and not nearly as skilled and talented as the pics of your bike might lead someone to think you are. My 600RR (03 I've had since 4/03) has been ridden 1-up, 2- up, stop and go, at 2K, at 15K and everything in between. Problems------00000000.......

Your starting to sound like my inlaws when talking politics!

[badbilly28]

Definately keep the 600 man.. It'll be a lot more fun..

[Fretless33]

Oz your just plain wrong and I'll tell you why. Honda would not produce a motorcycle available to the general public for street use with a factory warranty that was not able to deal with rigors of street riding conditions, one up or two. My comments in this thread so far have just been for fun but at this point it's clear your very uninformed and not nearly as skilled and talented as the pics of your bike might lead someone to think you are. My 600RR (03 I've had since 4/03) has been ridden 1-up, 2- up, stop and go, at 2K, at 15K and everything in between. Problems------00000000.......

Your starting to sound like my inlaws when talking politics!

Not to mention, he never answered why, if this bike is sooooooo race ready, he had to do all those modifications to make it race ready...I mean he damn near changed the whole bike!

[bbuker]

+1 for trackriding!

Hmmm. I think you missed my point...or maybe I didn't have one. Oh well

[Grady]

I have to agree with hairbag's  logic.

Oz your just plain wrong and I'll tell you why. Honda would not produce a motorcycle available to the general public for street use with a factory warranty that was not able to deal with rigors of street riding conditions, one up or two.

Futhermore
1>The bike comes from the factory with the passenger pillion already there, it is not an after-market mod.
2>There are some general instructions in the manual regarding riding with a passenger - therefore the bike must have been designed with two passengers in mind.
The manual says and I quote;
 Your motorcycle is a high-performance sport model designed to carry you and one passenger.
later it says
Be aware that carrying a passenger can affect acceleration, braking and handling
So HONDA, in there all forseeing vision, have given recommendations on how to ride with a passenger on the machine they designed. hmmm..........

You need to rev the bike hard to get a good stable bike from take off. Doing this around the public streets(which inherently has a lot of stops) means the bike is unable to get a good constant flow of air through the radiator, and *whalla* you`ve got a very hot bike.
Sportsbikes are DESIGNED to be ridden in the powerband, riding like you`re attempting a podium finish. They simply fit a rear seat and flashing lights so shmucks like you will buy one(wider target audience), and if you don`t ride your bikes like that then why on earth did you buy one? Do you also own a speedboat for fishing and an army tank to go camping?
I think you`ll understand now what I meant in my first post in the thread....

Again I reference the manual..
Recommended Shift Points
  Shifting Up
     1st to 2nd 12mph
     2nd to 3rd  19mph
     4th to 5th 31 mph
     5th to 6th 37mph.

Running at high revs (even with a passenger) will have you hitting these recommended shift points too fast to actually achieve them, therefore by the manuals definition, you have overrevved the engine and shifted at higher than recommended rpms. In the manual there is no diferentiation for shift points with a rider or not. So running around town with your chick (or buddy - whichever way you fellows swing  ) should not require reving the engine up to 10000 rpms.


 

[Ozjack]

it's clear your very uninformed and not nearly as skilled and talented as the pics of your bike might lead someone to think you are.

I`m neither skilled nor talented, I have simply been trained by Keith Code and am now a KNOWLEDGEABLE rider(otherwise you would not be seeing pics like that, right?). You`d think I`d know a thing or two about motorcycle control, would you not?
I`ve ridden on the road for the past 3 years full time, without even owning a car, and can laughably say that I`ve ridden the CBR  almost every situation and the best it performs is on the racetrack. The absolute WORST it performs, is with a pillion, and negates the purpose of even taking the motorcycle(CBR600RR) with 2 people anyway(just drive?).

Fret, the reason my bike is so high spec is because
A: I am rich
B: I like tinkering-everything on the bike has been done by myself (except for the fuel mapping), including the suspension set-up.
C:It`s fun to mod! All the bike needs from stock is suspension to suit your weight, but that`s not to say you can`t make it faster again with modfications for the racetrack
D: Even Honda released the official advertisement with Rossi riding it ON the racetrack, in it`s full road trim. You can see what they were aiming at for the target audience...(ie NOT 2-up riding). Many of you would not have bought the bike without a pillion seat, right? You are the wider target audience.

I agree with you that the bike will handle a passenger comfortably now, but why would you unless it was an emergency?
Until you`ve ridden the bike WELL, how do you knw what feels right or wrong on the motorcycle? I bet there is a huge percentage of you riding incorrectly and thinking it is perfectly fine(when in reality the slow road speed is what is saving you from crashing...).

PS. I`m not offended by any of the opinions expressed here in this thread-it`s good to see what each of you think of our bike!!

[Grady]

PS. I`m not offended by any of the opinions expressed here in this thread-it`s good to see what each of you think of our bike!!

+1 

[2old2fat2slow]

Yeah! OUR bikes rock!!!!

[Fretless33]

I`ve ridden on the road for the past 3 years full time, without even owning a car, and can laughably say that I`ve ridden the CBR  almost every situation and the best it performs is on the racetrack. The absolute WORST it performs, is with a pillion, and negates the purpose of even taking the motorcycle(CBR600RR) with 2 people anyway(just drive?).

You are a  hypocrite...this single paragraph discredits anything you've written in the past about street riders and puts YOU in the same category as US, so stop making statements like:

D: Even Honda released the official advertisement with Rossi riding it ON the racetrack, in it`s full road trim. You can see what they were aiming at for the target audience...(ie NOT 2-up riding). Many of you would not have bought the bike without a pillion seat, right? You are the wider target audience.

because YOU are the YOU about which YOU write...a former commuter who rode the same bike, in the same slow improper way as the people in which you mock...you really are a fool...

End of discussion...