Suspension setting or riding style??

[Ozjack]

No, no troublesome symptons but I'm confident the sag is not optimal. Anyway, I'm getting it dialed in before my next trackday.

Then why the hell do you want to "set up" your suspension How the fuck is it being "dailed in" if you`ve not been at the track before Thats why they have "Testing" at certain tracks in MotoGP in order to do suspension set ups AT THE TRACK.
The trick with suspension is knowing you will not go faster with a "set up". You need to keep riding faster and harder on stock settings, and any nuicances(such as running wide, or bottoming out etc) you simply dial out. This method reveals the perfect set-up, over time, for YOUR riding style and weight, enabling faultless braking/turning/exits on every corner of each track in question as you have simply eliminated each problem one by one
Any problem can be overcome by stock suspension, aftermarket stuff just means there are less compromises with each adjustment.
The hard part is choosing what to adjust for maximum benefits and minimum side-effects(preload raises the front and gives slower turn-in, for example).

[Ozjack]

OZ,

I ride an 03, recently adjusted the preload and set the sag, but still find the front end a little twitchy.  I'm 5'8" about 155 lbs (with gear on).

By "twitchy" I guess you are referring to the front end? Well, fresh from the crate, I actually had the same problems as the standard settings made by Honda are actually made for street riding WITHIN THE SPEED LIMITS
What this means is the bike will dive on the brakes like a hooker with the rent due, then slingshots back up as soon the lever is released.

Try this H0m0:
REAR SHOCK;
Preload- setting 4
Rebound- 1 1/2 turns from full IN
Compression- 6 clicks out from full IN

FORKS;
Preload- 4 lines showing
Rebound- 2 turns out from full IN
Compression- 1 3/4 turns from full IN

This should stop some of the overly quick suspension movement from standard. Do not question the settings I gave you. Try them first, then tell us what you think, as substituting your own numbers into my thought-out set up may cause a contradiction in the settings( I know you just did the preload but you can always return it to YOUR settings if there is too much fork travel). The reason for giving the rear shock some treatment for front end problems is because it just feels totally out of sync if you just fiddle with the front, and also some of that twitchyness is actually translated from the rear shock as the bike moves around during riding.
The settings are not actually that far from standard because FOR YOU its simply slowing the action of the well-sprung sdandard units.
Enjoy Focker, Now do your bike some justice and take it to a track to exploit its litre-bike embarrassing handling
I do...

[TGalaraga]

Awesome... Thanks Oz.  I'll try them out this weekend and be sure to let everyone know how it worked.

Thanks.

[madmanu]

Oz, are you just being hard on me?  I was asking just so I have a comparison with my current setting which I have ridden on the track and am very comfortable with but at the same time, it was setup with just me going about how it felt riding hard as I could and whatever felt give me better feel and stability. All the work was just me trying to find the perfect feeling on the bike, but you can't really achieve an optimal setup unless you have a buddy that really understands how measurement will be taken and help you out making those measurements too. That's why I said I'm confident that the sags are not optimal as it was by "feel" (my inexperienced feel) not with measurements to verify. I'm going back to the track but this time, it will be setup with a suspension guy and it should get nailed by then but in the meantime, I thought you might have some info regarding optimal setting for a guy my weight on an 05 so I can test prior to going to the track.  Capice Jackie    You do make sense in your posts though 

[madmanu]

The hard part is choosing what to adjust for maximum benefits and minimum side-effects(preload raises the front and gives slower turn-in, for example).

The first session out last time with CSS I had the preload up by a full turn, and I was wrestling the bike to make it turn, my coach was like, 1-2, quick flick  . I told him after that session that I wasn't being hard headed just that I forgot to bring the preload back down a notch (experimenting with hard braking the day prior) 

[Ozjack]

Oz, are you just being hard on me?  I was asking just so I have a comparison with my current setting which I have ridden on the track and am very comfortable with but at the same time, it was setup with just me going about how it felt riding hard as I could and whatever felt give me better feel and stability. All the work was just me trying to find the perfect feeling on the bike, but you can't really achieve an optimal setup unless you have a buddy that really understands how measurement will be taken and help you out making those measurements too. That's why I said I'm confident that the sags are not optimal as it was by "feel" (my inexperienced feel) not with measurements to verify. I'm going back to the track but this time, it will be setup with a suspension guy and it should get nailed by then but in the meantime, I thought you might have some info regarding optimal setting for a guy my weight on an 05 so I can test prior to going to the track.  Capice Jackie    You do make sense in your posts though 

OK man I understand what you want from your bike now(step 1 complete!!) HOWEVER-you are a long way off me telling you a set-up as you are at the stage of feel with the bike(very difficult to set up if you dont fully understand what your bike/the suspension is really doing). Try this though.
When you ride the bike, try to take in information the bike is telling you. if the front is diving too fast under brakes,add 2 turns of compression to slow the movement.
Now the rebound will also need increasing to slow the movement on the way back up after you release the lever.
If the bike squats under power while exiting hard throttle corners, add compression and preload so it takes more force to compress the spring under load(accelerating).
Adjust 2 clicks at a time, preload 1 line at a time.
Fact: you cannot make standard suspension STIFFER, only adjust how FAR(preload)the springs move and how FAST(compression/rebound) the springs move.
I personally dont think sag is as important as everyone thinks, as it generally means adjusting stuff blindly(without riding it). The best bet is to record what settings you have NOW, return everything back to standard and apply the suspension adjusting technique I just gave you.
Its just really difficult to help you if I`m not there with you seeing what you need and adjusting proportionately(sp?). Plus I dont know how good the USD 05 forks are and whats set up too calmly from the factory.
Hope the suspension guy knows whats going on and can help you out, I just wish I could help more here

[madmanu]

That's what I have been doing with the bike until I got the right feel for me. At first the front was diving when braking hard so I add some preload until it doesn't dive as much but also without affecting my turn in speed. Added compression a little bit more until it was almost gone. I added some rebound as well as the first I felt when entering a corner, it was running wide towards apex with neutral throttle. I was jouncing up a little bit to during downshifts especially during the blip (I thought I lost my ds/blip smoothness)   Now the setting of the forks I'm pretty happy with. It's a huge improvement over the 03 and I think the right spring (straight rate) with the right oil weight (fade resistant) will do (may not have to do revalve and such). The shock however, it's a different story. I'll have to be more sensitive or I guess I'm not riding it to it's potential, eventhough I take corners aggressively, especially at exit (pick up and hard on throttle). Maybe the stock is just right for my weight (I'm 170). But eventhough I feel good riding my bike as hard as I could on the track, I'm not going to rest until somebody (a suspension) guy confirm my setup and feel with proper measurement and see what difference it will make when I ride the same track again. Thanks for the advise and will come back to this post after my trackday with an update on the setup 

[Ozjack]

and will come back to this post after my trackday with an update on the setup 

That would be GREAT!!!
But remember to say what you did to the suspension for each problem(like you have done, only it will be more accurate this time with your experience and with a suspensh guy as well)

Ps. Make sure the tyres are new because these are the biggest contributing factor to your bike, more so than the engine, brakes, suspension or sometimes even the rider 
Fact: the rear suspension does NOT compress under accelleration. this is not a lie, and have seen the datalogging to prove it. The rear is only compressed IN corners and when going over bumps(if thats any use to you at all). good luck with the set up dude, cant wait for your findings

[Zagan]

To the orginal guy.

What was happening is the front was being pushed around the corner, it feels like the front won't turn and the front feels like it's fall on it side.

Your weight will have been pressing enough weight into the rear tire causing the front to be pushed, on the front you could have simply added a bit of compression to press the front tire into the ground.

You'll feel more bumps though.

or sofen up the rear rebound, and it may have stopped the front from being pushed.

I've been playing around with my settings and that's what I found I had to do as I upped the rear rebound which pushes the front around a corner.

[Ozjack]

To the orginal guy.

What was happening is the front was being pushed around the corner, it feels like the front won't turn and the front feels like it's fall on it side.

Your weight will have been pressing enough weight into the rear tire causing the front to be pushed, on the front you could have simply added a bit of compression to press the front tire into the ground.

You'll feel more bumps though.

or sofen up the rear rebound, and it may have stopped the front from being pushed.

I've been playing around with my settings and that's what I found I had to do as I upped the rear rebound which pushes the front around a corner.

Dude, from the sounds of that, I REALLY don`t think you have a grasp of the subject enough to be giving advice.
The front was EXTENDING on exit, so more REBOUND is needed to slow the movement as he hits the gas, holding the front tyre in the right direction for longer.
Lessening the rear rebound will make it FEEL like it`s diving under brakes and has little effect on corner exit as the rear DOES NOT EXTEND on accelleration. More rear preload will actually raise the rear end a little-helping the turning bike stay tight on exit(and not MORE REBOUND as you stated).
The settings I made for this guy to try actually contradict what you`re saying-only thing is he would need stiffer springs to get the real benefits of the suspension action. And he said he likes it.

I don`t mean to flame you (biatch ) but I just wouldn`t like people adjusting their shit wrongly as it causes great frustration when you take information you think is correct(ie from the site) and it just takes you in the opposite direction you want to go(I`m surprised you actually think your bike has improved from such fiddling as what you have done) 
OK I`m done now

[TribalRR]

Oz,
I just read this whole post and aside from being a FNG I have noticed (and don't like) the feeling of the diving in of the front end when I get on the brakes.  so from what I read in your advice is that I should add 2 turns to the compression and then adjust the rebound......you didn't mention how much the rebound needs to be adjusted for those settings.  Oh and I am 5'10 190.....on an '05.  Thanks

[TGalaraga]

OZ,

I've ridden quite a bit with the suspension settings that you gave me, and I have to admit, the bike has never felt better.  It's a bit softer then what I was used to, but it sticks like glue and the feedback I'm getting from the bike is perfect.

Now that that's all settled, time for some new rubber.

TGalaraga

[Ozjack]

OZ,

I've ridden quite a bit with the suspension settings that you gave me

Now that that's all settled, time for some new rubber.

TGalaraga

Thats the best idea i`ve heard in ages
Trust me when i say get the Michelin Pilot Powers. They give new meaning to "road" riding
The thing with "soft suspension" is quite literally the spring rate. As standard from Honda the bike needs a practical range of like 120lbs up to say 300lbs, and so is not set perfectly for YOU as an "average joe" rider. However, the standard suspension on the 600RR does NOT need money spent on it at all unless you are a racer looking for an edge over the competition, as it will support most types of riding you can come across.

Ps. Get to a track mofo you`ll be an infinetly better rider b y the end of it and you get to scrub the new tyres all the way round

[Ozjack]

Oz,
I just read this whole post and aside from being a FNG I have noticed (and don't like) the feeling of the diving in of the front end when I get on the brakes.  so from what I read in your advice is that I should add 2 turns to the compression and then adjust the rebound......you didn't mention how much the rebound needs to be adjusted for those settings.  Oh and I am 5'10 190.....on an '05.  Thanks

Sorry man, its gotta be trial and error for you. I have no idea how the 05 suspension reacts to adjustment, so just add compression until it doesnt drop as soon as you touch the brake lever.
Rebound should be used to tame the front flinging itself back up when you let off the brakes(at a guess i`d say 1 1/2 turns more than standard, and just  fine tune from there) but dont touch the preload unless the forks are travelling too far(nearly bottoming with NORMAL riding). From your weight I`d guess you need more preload anyway-try turning one line at a time as it`s usually pretty sensitive to adjustment and can throw the geometry outta whack. hope this helps any

[TribalRR]

Standing by to get blasted for this one.....but....break it down for me....which is the preload, compression etc.  I am assuming the compression is on the top of the forks and the rebound at the bottom.....thanks.